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Understanding Aqeedah


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#1 Islama86

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 07:56 PM

Bismillahi Rahman r Raheem and salam alaikum

The topic of knowing "Who" we are worshipping is a great one indeed and is my personal favorite. Take for example the fact that Allah is The Creator of everything and is Himself NOT created. From this it is also interesting to know that Allah created "space". I am not talking about outer-space...just space....itself. The "thing" that objects occupy. Now how amazing is it to know that BEFORE Allah created "space"....He (Allah) existed? How amazing is it to know that Allah is not "located" somewhere or in some place because that would mean Allah occupies "space". After all "things" or objects if you want to keep with this word for a bit...occupy space and therefore are able to be located. Now Jahennem is a "thing" as well as "Jennah" and these are created and thus they occupy "space" and are subject to location. But Allah is NOT created so how can He (Allah) be located or occupy space? He cannot! It is impossible to grasp the nature of Allahs existence. But it is logical to know there is a Creator behind the Creation....and not "behind" as in direction...because that would be "location" and it has just be proven Allah is not located.....at all! Location....is creation....created by The Creator. Amazing!!!!! Left, Right, Front, Back, Down and Up are the 6 directions....which are also created. And Allah existed before He Created these "directions". Amazing! The Throne of Allah is also something that is Created by Allah...it is "located" somewhere and Allah existed BEFORE He (Allah) Created The Throne. Therefore Allah is NOT located....above the Throne....literally that is! Because that would contradict The Greatness of Allah. It would also "locate" Allah and Allah is beyond "location". Once you understand that you will never be able to "UNDERSTAND" the nature of Allahs existence...then you understand.......understand?
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#2 coachMusa

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 08:39 PM

Purpose of this thread.... is....

Replies galore [possibly] will come flooding from others in.... 5.... 4.... 3.... 2.... 1.... a-n-d
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Wal'hamdhu'lil'lah aw'wal'lan wa akh'he'ran ||||| Alhumdulilla'ala'kulli'hal |||| How did you come to Islam?

#3 Islama86

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 09:28 PM

Bismillahi Rahman r Raheem and salam alaikum

The purpose of this thread is to understand aqeedah...because it is by far the best part of Islam and I do believe a part of shahada as well. It is easy to recite the shahada but to know who we worship is something that takes more effort.



Purpose of this thread.... is....

Replies galore [possibly] will come flooding from others in.... 5.... 4.... 3.... 2.... 1.... a-n-d


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#4 FatBoyMuslim

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 10:35 PM

a part of shahada




??


Replies galore [possibly] will come flooding from others in.... 5.... 4.... 3.... 2.... 1.... a-n-d




apart from the large paragraph and his unique writing style, what he said is solid gold. he is right about knowing "who" you worship. the person who attributes allaah with space doesn't know allaah, as the scholars say.

#5 Islama86

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 01:23 PM

Bismillahi Rahman r Raheem and salam alaikum

Let me explain a little how aqeedah is a part of shahada. We declare..."There is no god worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is the final Messenger from Allah". This is the shahada in english. The word to take note of is "Allah". He is mentioned by name so we should automatically ask..."who is Allah?". This is where understanding "who" we worship comes in and is known as aqeedah. Tawheed is more specific...the ONENESS of Allah and what this means allows us to know the "who", and aqeedah to believe in it correctly and with conviction free of doubt.

Aqeedah refers to those matters which are believed in, with certainty and conviction, in one’s heart and soul. They are not tainted with any doubt or uncertainty.

The Arabic word ‘aqeedah stems from the root ‘aqada, which conveys meanings of certainty, affirmation, confirmation, etc.

Thanks for taking note of the uniqueness in my writing.






??





apart from the large paragraph and his unique writing style, what he said is solid gold. he is right about knowing "who" you worship. the person who attributes allaah with space doesn't know allaah, as the scholars say.


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#6 Islama86

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 01:32 PM

Bismillahi Rahman r Raheem and salam alaikum

I think I may have mistyped something below so let me fix it. Understanding tawheed correctly takes times because of the specifics and leads to knowing "who" we worship. Aqeeda is then believing in tawheed with conviction. Conviction comes from the details which is of course our evidence. They are both a part of shahada. I am saying this personally because Allah is mentioned in the shahada and this is the first we ever get to hear of Allah. So we should investigate every detail concerning Him. This would lead us to tawheed and aqeedah inevitably.



Bismillahi Rahman r Raheem and salam alaikum

Let me explain a little how aqeedah is a part of shahada. We declare..."There is no god worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is the final Messenger from Allah". This is the shahada in english. The word to take note of is "Allah". He is mentioned by name so we should automatically ask..."who is Allah?". This is where understanding "who" we worship comes in and is known as aqeedah. Tawheed is more specific...the ONENESS of Allah and what this means allows us to know the "who", and aqeedah to believe in it correctly and with conviction free of doubt.

Aqeedah refers to those matters which are believed in, with certainty and conviction, in one's heart and soul. They are not tainted with any doubt or uncertainty.

The Arabic word 'aqeedah stems from the root 'aqada, which conveys meanings of certainty, affirmation, confirmation, etc.

Thanks for taking note of the uniqueness in my writing.





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#7 Alpha

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 04:41 PM

WalikomAslam

Can you please tell me where in the Quran or Hadith this word Aqeedah came?

Please just give one example.
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#8 FatBoyMuslim

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 05:27 PM

:)

#9 alaq

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 07:12 PM

WalikomAslam

Can you please tell me where in the Quran or Hadith this word Aqeedah came?

Please just give one example.


I dont get your point?

Can you please tell me where in the Quran or hadith is the word tajweed, balagha or the term "daef hadith"?

Aqidah is a necessary science just as lexicology, logic, rhetoric etc are necessary sciences. The scholars of Islam needed to document the beliefs of the Muslims to refute the sects at the time. They were experts of the Arabic language and decided the word aqidah is the most appropriate. If you don't like it feel free to call it whatever you want.
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#10 coachMusa

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 07:30 PM

Looks like thread is starting to pick up, inshaAllah it will be civil conversation all the way thru
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#11 Islama86

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 07:50 PM

Bismillahi Rahman r Raheem and salam alaikum

I gotta tell everyone...it was difficult to grasp certain things about Allah when I first became Muslim because I was inclined to think Allah was located somewhere. That Allah had a shape, size, limbs, and so forth because it was easier to imagine some sort of "Super being" floating in the heavens or hovering above the Throne...literally...than it was to accept that there is no possible way for my little brain to comprehend The Creator of all that exists. This was difficult until I met brothers who took the time to break some fundamental things down for me...and who also were "qualified" to do so. Things like "matter", "dimensions", "Width", "Shape", "Size", "Mass", "Appearance", "Color", "Direction", "Location", "Time", "Need", "Dependency" etc. were all things Created by Allah. And that before Allah Created them....He existed. Then it became a lot easier to remind myself that to entertain any thoughts like these with relation to Allah was incorrect. Because of these reminders to myself, it became easy to dismiss thing others would say about Allah if they fell into this category...or categories in addition to the ones mentioned. Someone would say "O Brother Allah is "above" the 7 heavens"...and I would dismiss and thoughts about this being literal and ask the brother to clarify what he said. If he said he meant it literally, I could then dismiss his claims by simple logic...replying with "Well, "things" are created by Allah...and "things" occupy space. And "space" is also created by Allah. The 7 heavens are also created as well as located and they do occupy space...all of which were created by Allah. So before Allah created them...He existed! What are you talking about.

The brother would then have nothing to say or he would not want to be around me once he found out I did not share his views. Some Muslims after beginning their salat, have an image in their heads about a "super being" located above the Throne literally. This is a problem.
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#12 FatBoyMuslim

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 08:03 PM

Some Muslims after beginning their salat, have an image in their heads about a "super being" located above the Throne literally.


a person who believes allaah to be a body and have borders, weight, mass etc. is not a muslim.

alpha: in case you are a follower of ibn taymiya, he too uses the word "aqidah" and talks about it a lot. :)

#13 Islama86

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:15 PM

Bismillahi Rahman r Raheem and salam alaikum

I would say that if a person understands what it means to believe Allah has a literal body, weight, mass etc. and still believes this about Allah, than they are not really different than the lebanese christians who still call Allah...Allah, but believe Him to have offspring and that He (Allah) became a man and so forth. The only thing between the lebanese christians and people who believe Allah has a body, mass, weight etc....is that they pray like we pray, and believe in Muhammad as the final Messenger. But they worship a different "(g)od"...and idol they call Allah...who is NOT Allah!

Now if there are people who believe these things but with no understanding because they do not really think about what it means or they cannot see the difference, I would personally call them grossly ignorant and in need of a lot of direction. But I would not call them "non-Muslims". I also try not to assume that just because they do not believe the things I believe, that they know the difference and choose what's wrong willingly. I give them the benefit of the doubt until they make statements...if any at all...that proves they are kafirs.
Remember a "kafir" is someone who knows the truth and covers it up.


a person who believes allaah to be a body and have borders, weight, mass etc. is not a muslim.

alpha: in case you are a follower of ibn taymiya, he too uses the word "aqidah" and talks about it a lot. Posted Image


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#14 FatBoyMuslim

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 09:23 PM

^true. i was referring to the first lot. (your first para)

http://sunnianswers....f/#comment-2249

#15 Alpha

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:41 PM

Brother It is not up to me or you or anyone to use whatever he wants when it comes to Allah's words


One of the main problems that is facing Muslims when they invented words and made it as part of Allah's religion, and each one give his definition to that invented words, as if Allha forgot or he was not able to give the correct definition or description to what he wanted to say (Astagfero Allah). That is why we have dozens of what we call Aqeddah ( Alaqeddah Altahweah, Alaqeddah Alwaseteah Alaqeddah Alasharia, Almaterdia, Alnasfeah…)


You know brother why it is dangers to use this word…

1- Allha didn't use this word in his book nor the prophet in his Hadith

2- Allah used different words (Mellah) so we forgot or ignored the accurate "terminology" which is caused huge misunderstanding to the original word. So you can't replace a word by word in the Quran (at all) this will cause a lot of confusion and "Tahreef"

3- So because we didn't use the correct word we used what we called Mutaradif in the Quran, means that The Synonymous (Al-Mutaradif); which mean there are 2 words with different way of writing it but we are saying it has the same meaning (which impossible) and caused more damage to our understanding to the Quran.

4- Allah used the word Mellah 15 times in the Quran, so why we have to used the word Aqeedah which never used!! (but the root Aqada عقد came in the Quran 3 times but not as Aqeedah as we are using it,بِالْعُقُودِ which means contracts, عَقَدَتْmeand pledged</SPAN>, عَقَّدتُّمُ الأيمان with menasoaths</SPAN>)

5- Allah commanded us by this Mellah of the our father Ibrahim and he made it as a legacy to us. So without understanding what is the Mellah of Ibrahim we will not understand the Dean.



I will let the Quran talk, but please notice the words with lines underneath



We can't change Allah's words

(



وَاتْلُ مَا أُوحِيَ إِلَيْكَ مِن كِتَـابِ رَبِّكَ لَا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمَاتِهِ وَلَن تَجِدَ مِن دُونِهِ مُلْتَحَدًا) الكهف/27 . ...

And recite what has been revealed to you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Book (the Qur'ân) of your Lord (i.e. recite it, understand and follow its teachings and act on its orders and preach it to men). None can change His Words, and none will you find as a refuge other than Him. 018.027



Do we really need to tell Allah's what to say!!





{قُلْ أَتُعَلِّمُونَ اللَّهَ بِدِينِكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ }الحجرات16

Say: "Will you inform Allâh of your religion While Allâh knows all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and Allâh is All-Aware of everything. 046.016

إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلٌ فَصْلٌ (13)

Behold this is the Word that distinguishes (Good from Evil) 086.013

</SPAN>


2 examples in the Quran used the word Mellah






وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمينَ مِنْ قَبْلُ وَفِي هَذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ فَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلاةَ وَآتُوا الزَّكَاةَ وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِاللَّهِ هُوَ مَوْلاكُمْ فَنِعْمَ الْمَوْلَى وَنِعْمَ النَّصِيرُ

And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline): He has chosen you and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah! He is your Protector― the― Best to protect and the Best to help! 022.078

وَمَن يَرۡغَبُ عَن مِّلَّةِ إِبۡرَٲهِـۧمَ إِلَّا مَن سَفِهَ نَفۡسَهُ ۥ‌ۚ وَلَقَدِ ٱصۡطَفَيۡنَـٰهُ فِى ٱلدُّنۡيَا‌ۖ وَإِنَّهُ ۥ فِى ٱلۡأَخِرَةِ لَمِنَ ٱلصَّـٰلِحِينَ (١٣٠) إِذۡ قَالَ لَهُ ۥ رَبُّهُ ۥۤ أَسۡلِمۡ‌ۖ قَالَ أَسۡلَمۡتُ لِرَبِّ ٱلۡعَـٰلَمِينَ (١٣١) وَوَصَّىٰ بِہَآ إِبۡرَٲهِـۧمُ بَنِيهِ وَيَعۡقُوبُ يَـٰبَنِىَّ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ ٱصۡطَفَىٰ لَكُمُ ٱلدِّينَ فَلَا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَأَنتُم مُّسۡلِمُونَ (١٣٢)

And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: and he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous. (130) Behold! His Lord said to him: "Submit (thy will to Me)" He said: "I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the universe." (131) And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons and so did Jacob; "O my sons! Allah hath chosen the faith for you; then die not except in the state of submission (to Allah)."

</SPAN>



No body can change Allha's words





أَمۡ يَقُولُونَ ٱفۡتَرَىٰ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ كَذِبً۬ا‌ۖ فَإِن يَشَإِ ٱللَّهُ يَخۡتِمۡ عَلَىٰ قَلۡبِكَ‌ۗ وَيَمۡحُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلۡبَـٰطِلَ وَيُحِقُّ ٱلۡحَقَّ بِكَلِمَـٰتِهِۦۤ‌ۚ إِنَّهُ ۥ عَلِيمُۢ بِذَاتِ ٱلصُّدُورِ (٢٤)

What! do they say "He has forged a falsehood against Allah"? But if Allah willed, He could seal up thy heart. And Allah blots falsehood, and proves the Truth by His Words. For He knows well the secrets of all hearts. 042.024


So my advice to stop using this word and start using the correct word after understanding it.
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#16 Bedouin

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:48 PM

Brother Alpha, may Allah reward your intentions, aameen. Your intenion is the only thing that you could be rewarded for by that post. What you said is based on and promotes nothing but ignorance, however.

Here's a question: Where in the qur'aan does Allah write the word "Allah" in English? Maybe you should stop writing it, otherwise it could be like us saying Allah forgot something? :unsure:
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#17 FatBoyMuslim

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 10:55 PM

a man is known by those he associates with. care to say openly, alpha, what your madhhab is, and who you consider to be your senior scholars?

#18 Alpha

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 11:02 PM

Bismillahi Rahman r Raheem and salam alaikum

I gotta tell everyone...it was difficult to grasp certain things about Allah when I first became Muslim because I was inclined to think Allah was located somewhere. That Allah had a shape, size, limbs, and so forth because it was easier to imagine some sort of "Super being" floating in the heavens or hovering above the Throne...literally...than it was to accept that there is no possible way for my little brain to comprehend The Creator of all that exists. This was difficult until I met brothers who took the time to break some fundamental things down for me...and who also were "qualified" to do so. Things like "matter", "dimensions", "Width", "Shape", "Size", "Mass", "Appearance", "Color", "Direction", "Location", "Time", "Need", "Dependency" etc. were all things Created by Allah. And that before Allah Created them....He existed. Then it became a lot easier to remind myself that to entertain any thoughts like these with relation to Allah was incorrect. Because of these reminders to myself, it became easy to dismiss thing others would say about Allah if they fell into this category...or categories in addition to the ones mentioned. Someone would say "O Brother Allah is "above" the 7 heavens"...and I would dismiss and thoughts about this being literal and ask the brother to clarify what he said. If he said he meant it literally, I could then dismiss his claims by simple logic...replying with "Well, "things" are created by Allah...and "things" occupy space. And "space" is also created by Allah. The 7 heavens are also created as well as located and they do occupy space...all of which were created by Allah. So before Allah created them...He existed! What are you talking about.

The brother would then have nothing to say or he would not want to be around me once he found out I did not share his views. Some Muslims after beginning their salat, have an image in their heads about a "super being" located above the Throne literally. This is a problem.



Jazak Allah Kiran brother Islama86 I agree 100% with you. My advice to myself and to you is to think of Allah’s attributes and his creation instead of thinking of him, because this brain which we are using is itself from Allah’s creations. So we will ever not be able imagine Allha. It is above our abilities.



لَّا تُدۡرِڪُهُ ٱلۡأَبۡصَـٰرُ وَهُوَ يُدۡرِكُ ٱلۡأَبۡصَـٰرَ‌ۖ وَهُوَ ٱللَّطِيفُ ٱلۡخَبِيرُ

No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension yet is acquainted with all things. 006.103</SPAN>

فَاطِرُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٲتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضِ‌ۚ جَعَلَ لَكُم مِّنۡ أَنفُسِكُمۡ أَزۡوَٲجً۬ا وَمِنَ ٱلۡأَنۡعَـٰمِ أَزۡوَٲجً۬ا‌ۖ يَذۡرَؤُكُمۡ فِيهِ‌ۚ لَيۡسَ كَمِثۡلِهِۦ شَىۡءٌ۬‌ۖ وَهُوَ ٱلسَّمِيعُ ٱلۡبَصِيرُ</SPAN>

(He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).042.11</SPAN>


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#19 Alpha

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 11:11 PM

Brother Alpha, may Allah reward your intentions, aameen. Your intenion is the only thing that you could be rewarded for by that post. What you said is based on and promotes nothing but ignorance, however.

Here's a question: Where in the qur'aan does Allah write the word "Allah" in English? Maybe you should stop writing it, otherwise it could be like us saying Allah forgot something? Posted Image



Brother Bedouin thank you for the Doaa. Jazak Allah Kiran.

I did not get your point if you mean that you can't translate the Quran to English, this is a big topic between the scholars. Yes we can't translate the Quran to any language we only can translating the meaning.

Can you please stop using the word ignorance describing what I have sad because I have included some Ayats.

Please be specific in what things that you did not like in my post.



Brother and sisters please my English language.


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#20 Alpha

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 11:18 PM

a man is known by those he associates with. care to say openly, alpha, what your madhhab is, and who you consider to be your senior scholars?


Brother FatBoy Muslim,

I am not following any specific Madhhab. I am just using my brain and trying to benefit from everyone.


Brother I am not a scholar, I am just a person trying his best to understand Al Islam.


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#21 FatBoyMuslim

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 11:42 PM

فَاسْأَلُواْ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِن كُنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ


ok brother, but the quran says to ask those of rememberance (ie people of knowledge) if you know not. if there was just a book to be given to us, it could have reached us without messengers too. but allaah's will is to teach us through messengers, the messengers taught their followers and so the chain continues. the 'ulema learn from their seniors, who learn from their seniors and so on, until the chain reaches the sahaba who learnt from the prophet.


trying to interpret islam on your own all by yourself is a grave mistake.

#22 Islama86

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 06:08 AM

Bismillahi Rahman r Raheem and salam alaikum

Brother Alpha I think it is important to follow a school of thought...instead of not following one. They are there for us to take direction from. Otherwise it will be difficult to learn ones religion. All 4 schools are correct so there is no need to worry if one might be wrong. Pick one of them and begin bit by bit to learn what you need to know. It is dangerous to try and learn it yourself. It is already been concentrated for you by the 4 Imams. Also do not think you will be able to follow all 4 schools at the same time because you will not be able to do so. There is too much information in just one school alone. So I'd recommend the Hanafi school because Abu Hanifa was closest to the time of The Messenger (salalahu alayhi wa selem). Avoid hopping around and taking bits and pieces. I am trying to do the same and it is difficult. We get tempted to pick at knowledge as if it were a dinner we were not really interested in. So pick a school, and if you choose te Hanafi school there is a good book to start. I think it is the first book because all it covers are the fundamentals. The book is called "TALEEMUL HUQQ". Check it out.Posted Image
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#23 Alpha

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 07:29 AM

Islama86 & FatBoyMuslim Jazakuma Allah Kiran





Brothers please notice that Allha in one Surah (Alqamar) he commanded us 4 times to try to understand Al Quran and he made it easy. So it is duty upon us to do so.



وَلَقَدۡ يَسَّرۡنَا ٱلۡقُرۡءَانَ لِلذِّكۡرِ فَهَلۡ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ۬</SPAN>

And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? 054.17, 045.022, 045.32, 054.40

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But we have to be carful no just follow our fathers or the people before us blindly

بَلۡ قَالُوٓاْ إِنَّا وَجَدۡنَآ ءَابَآءَنَا عَلَىٰٓ أُمَّةٍ۬ وَإِنَّا عَلَىٰٓ ءَاثَـٰرِهِم مُّهۡتَدُونَ (٢٢) وَكَذَٲلِكَ مَآ أَرۡسَلۡنَا مِن قَبۡلِكَ فِى قَرۡيَةٍ۬ مِّن نَّذِيرٍ إِلَّا قَالَ مُتۡرَفُوهَآ إِنَّا وَجَدۡنَآ ءَابَآءَنَا عَلَىٰٓ أُمَّةٍ۬ وَإِنَّا عَلَىٰٓ ءَاثَـٰرِهِم مُّقۡتَدُونَ (٢٣) قَـٰلَ أَوَلَوۡ جِئۡتُكُم بِأَهۡدَىٰ مِمَّا وَجَدتُّمۡ عَلَيۡهِ ءَابَآءَكُمۡ‌ۖ قَالُوٓاْ إِنَّا بِمَآ أُرۡسِلۡتُم بِهِۦ كَـٰفِرُونَ (٢٤)

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Nay! they say: "We found our fathers following a certain religion, and We do guide ourselves by their footsteps." (22) Just in the same way, whenever We sent a Warner before thee to any people, the wealthy ones among them said: "We found Our fathers following a certain religion, and We will certainly follow in their footsteps." (23) He said: "What! even if I brought you better guidance than that which ye found your fathers following?" They said: "For us, We deny that ye (prophets) are sent (on a mission at all)."043.22


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#24 FatBoyMuslim

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 07:38 AM

alpha, you are severely misguided and misinterpreting the quran. i suggest you sit with a scholar and understand the quran properly, along with hadith and fiqh.

Nay! they say: "We found our fathers following a certain religion, and We do guide ourselves by their footsteps." (22) Just in the same way, whenever We sent a Warner before thee to any people, the wealthy ones among them said: "We found Our fathers following a certain religion, and We will certainly follow in their footsteps." (23) He said: "What! even if I brought you better guidance than that which ye found your fathers following?" They said: "For us, We deny that ye (prophets) are sent (on a mission at all)."043.22



this verse refers to disbelievers. muslims are to learn their deen from the prophet. the prophet taught it to the sahabas, they taught it to the tabi'een, they taught to taba' tabi'een, and they taught it to their juniors and so the chain continues.

if allaah did not will for us to learn from teachers, we wouldn't have been sent prophets even.

are you a quran only, no hadith advocate?

#25 Alpha

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 07:50 AM

Brother FatBoyMuslim please try not to classify people.

What I am trying to say is: we have to do our best by our own efforts to understand our religion. It is not good enough to say I am following this Mathhab or that Shiek. Because in day of judgment we will be asked individually

Any mistake of what I am saying?!


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#26 FatBoyMuslim

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:01 AM

Any mistake of what I am saying?!




yes. you are filibustering.


answer a simple question: are you a quran only, no hadith, no teacher guy? if not, who is your teacher or who do you consider to be a qualified scholar, other than yourself?
honest people shoot straight. they don't filibuster.

#27 Alpha

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 08:12 AM




yes. you are filibustering.


answer a simple question: are you a quran only, no hadith, no teacher guy? if not, who is your teacher or who do you consider to be a qualified scholar, other than yourself?
honest people shoot straight. they don't filibuster.



Brother I didn’t understand the word filibustering!

No I am not Quran only? And you still want to classify me!

This is not correct nor good way for discussion, you need to discus my point don’t start attacking me.


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#28 CM786

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:14 AM

Because in day of judgment we will be asked individually

Exactly, that is why we have to follow a reliable trusted authentic scholars/teachers to teach us our Deen better so that we dont go astray coz Allah is definately going to question us how we use our intellect/aql. :)

ThUnDa4rOmDoWnUnDa, on 13 October 2010 - 10:38 AM, said: There's a saying, "Whoever doesn't have a shaykh, Shaytan is his shaykh." Generally, first and foremost it means you have to have a teacher for the Shariah. You have to have someone who teaches you the religion. When we visit Sh. Mimmar (spelling?) the other day, what did he keep saying? "Get teachers even if you have to pay them. Have teachers. You need teachers to guide you. You need to have sources of knowledge."

Have you heard the hadith of Rasullullah (saw)
"A word of wisdom is the lost property of a Muslim. He should seize it wherever he finds it." (Tirmizi)
and His last sermon

Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly.
Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware, do not astray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People! No Prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore O People! And understand words that I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly.
O Allah, be my witness, that I have conveyed your message to Your people.





Brother I didn't understand the word filibustering!

I dont either, Ive learnt new words everyday too, dont worry about FBM, he can be silly sometimes <_< he means no harm:)

ok back to topic pls:)
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That which brings you closer to Allah (swt), is the greatest blessing of all.

#29 alaq

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:27 AM

So should I study tajweed, balagha, etc? I have not seen them in the Quran or Hadith.
Or should I just read the quran however I want?


I dont think you are understanding what aqidah is. It goes like this:

Many Muslims are in the community.
One of them says "Sins do not matter if you are a Muslim because the Quran says that Allah is oft-forgiving"
The Majority of them say "actually thats not quite correct....."

One of the Muslims then say "Hellfire will end after a period of time because we know Allah is the first and the last"
The Majority of them say "actually thats not quite correct....."

One of the Muslims then say "Allah is in the sky because He says in the Quran that He rose above the throne"
The Majority of them say "actually thats not correct....."

This starts to cause confusion in the community with people saying things like "maybe Allah does have a hand as it says so here and here". The scholars want to end this nonsense so they document the creed of the Muslims refuting all of the deviant ideas. They write books (matoon) as teaching aids and call the science Aqidah. Just like the science and matoon for sarf (morphology) but I doubt you will find "sarf" in the Quran or hadith.

As I said you can call the science whatever you want at the end of the day it is just a word pointing to an understood meaning.
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#30 Bedouin

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:37 AM

I've never heard of filibustering either.

Btw Alpha, sorry if I was rude to you earlier.

However, I really have to stress, you are following a wrong path. Think about this, Prophet Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam said something to the effect that the Scholars are inheritors of the Prophets. What does that tell you? Obviously, it means there is something about them that makes them worthy of being followed. Knowledge of deen is one such factor.

Clearly, any old person is not considered an inheritor of Prophethood. You nor I, without having studied the deen properly (a full lifetime's worth of endeavour in and of itself), cannot be considered inheritors simply by opening a page of the Quraan and coming to our own conclusions.

Furthermore, your approach is not at all practical. Just imagine, if every single Muslim in the world did like you do, then there would be millions and millions of different 'deens'. Who would be correct? Many uncountable opinions would arise, there would be nothing but disunity.

Another thing, since the literature surrounding the ahadith is so vast, it would require every single muslim to spend extensive amount of time learning deen. Again, which is simply impractical because then nobody would get anything else done. Who would run the hospitals, police stations etc if everone was in education? This can't be done. It is only logical that there will be some people who will learn deen and others will do the other necessary jobs in life. Those who learn deen will be considered scholars.

There is no need to 'reinvent the wheel' all by yourself. Madhaib are over a thousand years old with many hundreds and thousands of scholars having provided their own input to result in the refined products we see in this day.

A lay person is just doing himself a grave injustice by ignoring all these scholars and following his limited understanding.
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