21 replies to this topic

[Sufyan B]

[zemaire]

Will this event be recorded enshalllah?

[fatma]

it said it will on FB

[Jimmy]

I may be the odd man out here.......but I really loathe such debates.

[Sibawayh]

Jimmy, on 16 September 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:

I may be the odd man out here.......but I really loathe such debates.

I'm with you Jimmy. I prefer other Da'wa methods rather than debates of these sorts.

[eosdiscovery]

Jimmy, on 16 September 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:

I may be the odd man out here.......but I really loathe such debates.

Unless you are a master of debates the likes of Imam Hanafi I'd prefer people to avoid debating on such topics.. debating does little in the way of spreading love and mercy and certainly does even less for dawa. There will always be someone on the losing side and that person will hold contempt and animosity for the winning side for they are firm believers in what they are debating. They are there to prove their point, not to lose, and if they do lose they will not go down without a fight. It becomes difficult for a person in this state to accept what the other person may be proposing. And Allah knows best.

[Bedouin]

Quote

I'm with you Jimmy. I prefer other Da'wa methods rather than debates of these sorts.

As far as dawah goes, I don't think people would take much from such debates. Usually, on both sides, people will go in and come out holding the same view as before. The only people that would be convinced would be those that already believed to begin with. There may be one or two exceptions, so Alhamdulilah, we can say such debates are warranted.

I personally watch these things for entertainment.

[ThUnDa4rOmDoWnUnDa]

Alpha Dude, on 16 September 2010 - 10:52 PM, said:

I personally watch these things for entertainment.

You should've been there tonight...you would've been thoroughly, and I repeat, thoroughly entertained! lol

I respect the efforts of the MSA for putting up an event like this and I respect their intentions, but in all seriousness, don't do it next time. Please

It would've been more beneficial to have a muslim speaker giving a presentation on the Islamic definition of God and the proofs for the attributes of wujud, existence.

[Bedouin]

Would love to have been there, except I live in the UK. Awaiting the upload..

Who 'won'?

[cucurbit]

is it just me, or does anyone else think hussein saleh'uddin should consider a name change. Not exactly righteous to the deen as his name would suggest

[zemaire]

cucurbit, on 17 September 2010 - 01:17 AM, said:

is it just me, or does anyone else think hussein saleh'uddin should consider a name change. Not exactly righteous to the deen as his name would suggest

who is he?

[Bedouin]

^ Read the poster. Ex-muslim apostate who debated for the atheist side.

[fatma]

Jimmy, on 16 September 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:

I may be the odd man out here......

ok bite my tongue

i wanted to go to this but something else came up. i thought it looked really interesting but 3 hours

[ThUnDa4rOmDoWnUnDa]

Alpha Dude, on 17 September 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

Who 'won'?

The audience! They were treated to a spectacle. lol

In all seriousness, the athiests were pathetic(one wouldn't expect anything more anyways). The muslim brothers made some decent points but I question their approach. They were more interested in laying down the "rules of engagement" then actually taking part in it. And I say this with no disrespect. The format of the debate. 15 minutes allocated to each speaker, was the worst part of it all.

[CM786]

Alpha Dude, on 17 September 2010 - 01:59 AM, said:

^ Read the poster. Ex-muslim apostate who debated for the atheist side.

May Allah (swt) guide him back to Islam InshaAllah. Its sad indeed

[Orion]

Unfortunately the debate was a bit of a let down. Not that I expected much good to come out of such a format but nonetheless, I think it should have been planned a little better. 15 minutes is simply not enough, by the time the speaker finishes his introduction he has lost a considerable amount of time already.

The speakers in the negative failed to address many of the issues raised by Uthman and Wassim, namely are there other forms of evidence besides scientific? It was not even glimpsed upon by John/Hossain. They also failed to acknowledge their lack of understanding of Islam despite Hossain been a former muslim. John was rambling on about fallacious evidence to disprove the Quran and Hossain was firing away with his pellets randomly hoping to hit the target and failed on all fronts. What was Hossain thinking speaking of quantam mechanics and the total energy of the universe equalling zero to such an audience? He obviously hasn't done his homework.

Wassim and Uthman spent far too much time setting the ground for the debate and speaking about the atrocities committed in the name of secularism. Uthman's approach is more tailored for a lengthy discussion or in writing. Wassim raised one point about Prophet Muhammad changing the world in 13 years in contrast with the Atheist, whom it has taken many centuries. Uthman briefly mentioned the subject of sanad and the infinite regression issue. Looking at it in hindsight, I think the debate shifted from the relevance of God in the 21st century to does God exist.

The behaviour from the crowd, mainly from the muslims in QnA session was quite appalling and I was truly ashamed. The MC should have set some ground rules and be quite firm with them. I lost count at the amount of times I shook my head and cringed whenever someone got up to speak and thinking to myself "how much will this person embarrass us more than the previous questioner?". Even more embarrassing was when Hossain was quoting Bin Baz (as if Bin Baz was some authoritarian on the islamic ummah and science) that the Earth was flat and anyone believing otherwise is ridiculous, then Hossain proceeded to question the crowd "can anyone take this seriously?" in which many (obviously non-informed) muslims responded "Yes!"!!! Yikes!!!

[Fazza]

Salams

I think the topic of the debate could have been better chosen. one cant have debates about the role of god in life while disagreeing about his existence. this HAD to be a proper "does god exist" debate and it should have been; that topic title can be improved..

After that, the two sides never properly engaged. The negative was a shambles and had nothing in return for the rational proof of god (the kalam cosmological argument, modified) that uthman put forth.

I think the affirmative could have done a few things better,but its academic; they were charged with presenting a case and they did. The negative didnt respond to the case in the LEAST. it was an epic failure on the negative's part and they discharged no burden of proof that rest on them.

The audience could have behaved itself better but it was a the same time good to see so many young muslims there passionate for something.

I think people speaking when they are given a mic is fine, but yelling things out well after its been taken away takes away from the setting. Though at the same time i can understand the anger some would have felt - the two atheists' assertions as to the history of islam, contradicitions in the quran, and MANY other points mean that emotions were running high.

At the same time what do people expect? its an atheist cming to speak - i found people saying "staghfirullah" a bit odd.

Must say though - credit to uwsmsa. The turnout was very good - 400 i would say - and this msa has come a long long way in a very short amount of time. the event was professionaly executed also.

barakallahu feehum.

[Sufyan B]

Format certainly needs to be looked at. Needs to be changed. And crowd control improved as well. But overall debate went well I would say in achieving its objectives, alhamdulillah.

[bahram]

Orion, on 17 September 2010 - 04:25 PM, said:

Unfortunately the debate was a bit of a let down. Not that I expected much good to come out of such a format but nonetheless, I think it should have been planned a little better. 15 minutes is simply not enough, by the time the speaker finishes his introduction he has lost a considerable amount of time already.

The speakers in the negative failed to address many of the issues raised by Uthman and Wassim, namely are there other forms of evidence besides scientific? It was not even glimpsed upon by John/Hossain. They also failed to acknowledge their lack of understanding of Islam despite Hossain been a former muslim. John was rambling on about fallacious evidence to disprove the Quran and Hossain was firing away with his pellets randomly hoping to hit the target and failed on all fronts. What was Hossain thinking speaking of quantam mechanics and the total energy of the universe equalling zero to such an audience? He obviously hasn't done his homework.

Wassim and Uthman spent far too much time setting the ground for the debate and speaking about the atrocities committed in the name of secularism. Uthman's approach is more tailored for a lengthy discussion or in writing. Wassim raised one point about Prophet Muhammad changing the world in 13 years in contrast with the Atheist, whom it has taken many centuries. Uthman briefly mentioned the subject of sanad and the infinite regression issue. Looking at it in hindsight, I think the debate shifted from the relevance of God in the 21st century to does God exist.

The behaviour from the crowd, mainly from the muslims in QnA session was quite appalling and I was truly ashamed. The MC should have set some ground rules and be quite firm with them. I lost count at the amount of times I shook my head and cringed whenever someone got up to speak and thinking to myself "how much will this person embarrass us more than the previous questioner?". Even more embarrassing was when Hossain was quoting Bin Baz (as if Bin Baz was some authoritarian on the islamic ummah and science) that the Earth was flat and anyone believing otherwise is ridiculous, then Hossain proceeded to question the crowd "can anyone take this seriously?" in which many (obviously non-informed) muslims responded "Yes!"!!! Yikes!!!

That is terrible. Yes a friend of mine told me how they were embarassed during the Q&A at how some of the brothers acted.

[Fazza]

I dont think they were non informed - i think they were simply being cheeky (unnecessarily so).

[mr Eazy]

shame, I thought we were gonna see an actual debate this time. I mean you'd think that Uthman would have gotten it right after the 3rd time!
But Insha Allah it brought benefit to the people there. And its good that it created a buzz at UWS - which needs it. I didnt see the debate, so i'll still say well done to the brothers there on their islamic awareness week!

Lots of people love a debate, for whatever reason lol. Hopefully the bad behaviour didn't turn people away from Islam. Bad adab in public places hmmmmm. I'll watch the video at the end of the year and take notes!


salams all!

[Sufyan B]