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Balsamic Vinegar


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#1 emsaa

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 06:24 PM

As salamu alaikum,


Does anyone know if balsamic vinegar is Halal?
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#2 Wolf

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 09:37 PM

No reason why it shouldn't be that I know of.

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#3 Sakinah

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 10:13 PM

isnt it just plain vinegar...basically just an acid :-D
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hh

#4 Wolf

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Posted 13 July 2004 - 10:16 PM

Yep...it's the wine based vinegars that you have to avoid. Balsamic isn't one of those as a general rule.

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#5 Hanan Oum Medina

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 03:50 PM

SAWAWB

Wolf, are you sure? I've made some calls and the companies advise that there is in fact alcohol in balsamic vinegar. The back of the bottles read red wine on some! Are you assuming that it's white vinegar with red dye for colouring purposes???? Hmmm....

Can anyone who knows anything about vinegar please explain?!?!?!

Wasalaam
Hanan, :?
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#6 Wolf

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 05:00 PM

Sis I'm sure I've seen Balsamic vinegar without wine. Certainly there are wine based vinegars, white, brown, balsamic etc. But I don't think that all balsamic is wine based.

I'll hunt around and see if I have a bottle handy tonight inshallah.

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#7 Hanan Oum Medina

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Posted 14 July 2004 - 09:37 PM

SAWAWB

Bless your vinegared heart! Look forward to hearing some positive news from you :-D

Wasalaam
Hanan
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#8 dachlostar

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 11:36 AM

Vinegar is made by the oxidisation of alcohol. Bacteria is added to a non-distilled alchohol base which then transforms the alchohol into acetic acid. It is possible that traces of alcohol can remain in any vinegar but there would not be enough to regard it as an intoxicant since if it was still an alcocholic drink it would just be off wine/cider not vinegar. Balsamic vinegar is made slightly differantly than other vinegars in that rather than being a wine base with acetobacter added the process is started with unfermented grape juice which is fermented by a differant bacteria than that used in wine. After alcohol forms from the sugar it is fermented some more until it becomes vinegar.
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#9 Wolf

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 11:57 AM

Just on the issue of alcohol generally. Does alcohol evaporate in the cooking process? If it does, and there is therefore, no more intoxicating effect, would it still be haram and if so why?

Salam
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#10 dachlostar

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 12:04 PM

Alcohol evaporates when heated so it is destroyed by cooking. As for whether it is haram to cook with alcohol I have no idea so I prefer to err on the side of caution.
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#11 souLja

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 12:39 PM

Alcohol evaporates when heated so it is destroyed by cooking. As for whether it is haram to cook with alcohol I have no idea so I prefer to err on the side of caution.


does all of the alcohol evaporate when heated or just part of it?
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#12 Wolf

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 01:01 PM

Well that'sthe issue. I didn't study Chemistry after the HSC but my understanding is that if cooked properly all the alcohol evaporates. There must be some advanced science students out there who could clarify this?

If it is ALL evaporated what is the shariah ruling on it then?
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#13 souLja

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 01:06 PM

i *think* if it all evaporates then it should be okay to consume...
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#14 MedicineMan

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 01:21 PM

salams,

theres a few things that need consideration here....

firstly, u must identify what type of alcohol is in use. ethanol for example has a boiling point of about 78.5 degrees, however, many many other alcohols (greater than 100 degrees) have boiling points much higher than water (100 degrees).

so in the case of ethanol, it has a lower boiling point compared to water, and thus will be evaporated first.

however, other types of alcohol will only be evaporated past the 100 degree mark, thus, depending on the temperature used, the water will be evaporated first, followed by the alcohol. so there is a chance of trace elements of the alcohol to be remained behind, depending on the boiling temperature.

so it all really depends on the boiling temperature used...

If it is ALL evaporated what is the shariah ruling on it then?


if all of the alcohol is evaporated, technically, its all GONE! however, there is always a chance of trace elements remaining behind, due to external factors...

as for the shariah ruling, i have no say

hope that helps

wasalamu alaikum
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#15 Wolf

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 01:25 PM

Thanks bene but does anyone know what other types of alcohol are used in cooking other than ethanol?
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#16 dachlostar

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 01:28 PM

Even if all the alcohol has evaporated if you have bought alcohol to use in your cooking you have contributed to the profit margin of a liquor outlet, liquor wholesaler and brewery/vineyard/distillery.
In nearly every recipie it is possible to find a substitute except perhaps if it calls for flambeeing.
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#17 Hanan Oum Medina

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 04:13 PM

SAWAWB

Agreed with Dachlo on the last point. Contributing to their profits is bad enough, is it not?

We may like it, but we should avoid it. That's my opinion anyway. All vinegars, yes?

Wasalaam
Hanan
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#18 Gforce

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 04:20 PM

if the alcohol evaporates, what is the pupose of its use initaially. :?
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#19 Aqua

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 04:42 PM

Even if all the alcohol has evaporated if you have bought alcohol to use in your cooking you have contributed to the profit margin of a liquor outlet, liquor wholesaler and brewery/vineyard/distillery.


what about if you get it free?? :shock: :lol: :lol:

just kidding, i would NEVER use alcohol!!

and yes, we have been given alcohol for free... my husband was given a bottle of wine last christmas from a non muslim rep as a gift!!! he was shocked and threw it away ofcourse!!

salams

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#20 souLja

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 10:39 PM

In nearly every recipie it is possible to find a substitute except perhaps if it calls for flambeeing.


does anybody remember the fresh prince of bell-air episode where will burnt the kitchen down trying to do flambe... :lol:
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#21 MedicineMan

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 11:21 PM

In nearly every recipie it is possible to find a substitute except perhaps if it calls for flambeeing.


does anybody remember the fresh prince of bell-air episode where will burnt the kitchen down trying to do flambe... :lol:


LOLLLLLLL that show ROXXXXXXX :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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#22 Wolf

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 10:13 AM

Assalamu alaykum,

Can I bring this threadback on topic now?

I knew I had a bottle somewhere at home.

Vilux Balsamic Vinegar
Ingredients
Vinegar 74%
Cooked Must 25%
Caramel 1%

I'm pretty sure I have seen one other brand that just lists 'vinegar' in the ingredients list. All the others say "wine vinegar" and give an alcohol content. So I have always assumed that just 'vinegar' and no mention of alcohol meant no alcohol.

I got this from Food For Less, which means it would also be available at Woolies.

If I'm mistaken about the assumption of no alcohol I'd appreciate someone letting me know.

Wa salam
Wolf
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#23 Hanan Oum Medina

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 09:17 PM

SAWAWB

DACHLOSTAR

Vinegar is made by the oxidisation of alcohol. Bacteria is added to a non-distilled alchohol base which then transforms the alchohol into acetic acid. It is possible that traces of alcohol can remain in any vinegar but there would not be enough to regard it as an intoxicant since if it was still an alcocholic drink it would just be off wine/cider not vinegar. Balsamic vinegar is made slightly differantly than other vinegars in that rather than being a wine base with acetobacter added the process is started with unfermented grape juice which is fermented by a differant bacteria than that used in wine. After alcohol forms from the sugar it is fermented some more until it becomes vinegar.


I thin that says it all for me, I think. But then there are halal accrediatations for plain vinegar. I'm so confused.... today I went and pinched a pile of lemons from my sister's house. I'm switching back :?

Wasalaam
Hanan
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#24 dachlostar

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 04:48 PM

Must is the technical name for the undiluted grape juice used to make balsamic vinegar. So strictly speaking what you have isn't properly aged balsamic vinegar but vinegar diluted with grape juice. There are probably other vinegars that are diluted with wine and cider. Australia has quite strict disclosure laws so if you read the label and it doesn't list alcohol then it probably doesn't contain alcohol.

Jaabir (rAa) reported that the Prophet  :saws: said: “What a good food is vinegar.” (Muslim, 3/1623)  


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#25 Hanan Oum Medina

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 08:15 PM

SAWAWB

A girlfriend of mine was in this new store that sells vinegars at the Bondi Junction Westfield's, and the shop owner advised that because the level of alcohol is so minimal they are NOT required, BY LAW, to advertise it on the bottle. It's below the percentage rate of alcohol that must be printed on its label. Allah alem.

Oh well, lemons are better anyway :roll:

Wasalaam
Hanan
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#26 souLja

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 08:27 PM

today i was in a store in town where they have alot of imported foods, and i had a look at there balsamic vinegar collection, some of them dont have alcohol listed in their ingredients lis, but others do. and i assumed the same thing, that the content is so minimal that it doesnt get listed..
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Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:53 PM

*bump*

So is Balsamic ok or not? :huh:

Anyone got anything new to add?
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#28 Hanan Oum Medina

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 10:40 PM

So far as we know yes, unless it has the red wine added to it. It should be listed on the ingredients seperately.... blah blah blah, red wine, blah blah............

I bought 2 different brands and don't like either one. Lemons are goooder, I say...
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#29 FMD

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 10:59 PM

I have to use balsamic - I Looooove it.
Just as a general rule, i always check the label.
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Posted 24 August 2006 - 06:12 PM

I have to use balsamic - I Looooove it.

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Ditto. Onions caramellised with balsamic & soy sauce is divine.
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