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Why Should Polygamy Be A Crime?


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#121 versus-xiii

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 11:04 PM

regarding the aforementioned Malaysian court case, I believe this is worth noting here:

(whats presented here is information gathered on a global study on Islamic Family law, current as of 2002: more info on this here
http://www.law.emory.edu/ifl/)

http://www.law.emory...al/malaysia.htm
(what is quoted here is not presented in the same order: the table formatting is a bit iffy)

Islamic Family Law Enactments:

* Kelantan, Negeri Sembilan, Malacca 1983
* Selangor, Kedah, Perak, Federal Territories 1984
-- Polygamy: allowed with judicial permission; contingent upon application and court hearing with existing wife or wives; court requires proof of necessity (e.g., sterility physical infirmity, wilful avoidance of restitution order, etc.), proof of financial capacity; guarantee of equitable treatment of co-wives; proof that proposed marriage will not lower standard of life of existing wife or wives and dependants; contravention of application and permission requirements punishable by requiring immediate payment of outstanding dower to existing wife or wives and by fine and/or imprisonment --
* Penang, Pahang, Trengganu, 1985

[major amendments to IFL Federal Territories Act in 1994 included: allowing registration of polygamous marriage valid according to shari�a but not contracted with prior judicial permission, with courts empowered to consider character of husband as well as the considerations provided in original 1985 legislation, and deleted requirement that a proposed polygamous marriage must not lower standard of living of existing wife/wives and dependants in any way; also added that courts are to adjudicate on shar�i validity of extra-judicial talaq, although penalties for such are retained in the legislation]

Administration of Islamic Law Enactments:

* Kelantan 1982
* Kedah 1983
* Selangor 1989
* Federal Territories 1993




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#122 Othman

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 07:14 AM

How do you see that The Shariah Court of Malaysia does not support my view when the outcome – monogamy – has been reached by both views – mine and that of The Shariah Court of Malaysia?

Because the court is saying, "Polygamy is allowed with certain conditions which in this case are not met so this particular marriage can not go ahead". You are saying, "Polygamy is not allowed at all in the first instance", except with orphans which is not relevant in this case.

BUt there is a bigger issue here, which is your persistence in having a 'personal reading' even after knowing that you are not an expert. If you're not an expert/scholar, as you acknowledge, then should you not be adopting an opinion from someone who is, instead of goign with your own lay reading?
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#123 Ibn Tarek

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 10:44 AM

can you please further elaborate on the answer to my question from a few posts back Othman?
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#124 pepe

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 02:16 PM

You are too engulfed by the issue and that, seemingly, is clouding your judgment!

My views are the product of my personal reading of the Holy Quran. The Shariah Court of Malaysia judgment is the product of their respective reading and has passed judgement based on it by disallowing the polygamous marriage.

If I was to preside in that court I wound pass judgement based on my personal reading for not allowing the polygamous marriage.

How do you see that The Shariah Court of Malaysia does not support my view when the outcome – monogamy – has been reached by both views – mine and that of The Shariah Court of Malaysia?

Isn't the difference that while the court is basically saying "polygamy=ok but not for this guy" while your opinion seems to be "polygamy=bad fullstop"

Personally people need to stop using defending polygamy as some sort of "unalienable right"/identity politics and people who oppose it need to reflect on how much of this opposition is from sincere reading of the quran and how much of it is actually our cultural upbringing.
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#125 stopnot

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 11:09 AM

Othman, your views on who can read the Quran and who can understand it were human construct made 300 years after its completion. Why would one believe a humanly created text restricting human intellect and not believe The Devine Text itself?

The same restrictive views were held by the Church before Reformation restricting congregation to listen to the Bible in Latin only. Congregation was to be read to only while reading directly from the Bible was frowned upon.

Since then Christians have been reading the Bible on their own and neither Christianity, the Church, the Bible nor Christians have lost one iota of the messages carried across.
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#126 Sabrinee

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 11:35 AM

Ive never understood men's rationale for taking on a second wife. If its for social justice reasons, loking after a widow and whatot, then thats understandable. He is performing a social function.

But when men use their " increased hormones" to justify taking a second wife, thats just vile.
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#127 Jimmy

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 11:36 AM

Of course they would know which one is the father. anyway, relations outside of marriage is ok remember in this society. that is disgusting for Muslims, but the norm for many non-Muslims. they don't see a problem with it (if it is done responsibly). so we can yell all we like about how bad that is, but it doesn't echo for them. they think having four wives is demeaning/oppressing/objectifying women and find that disgusting. im just saying...



Jeez I hope you wrote that tongue in cheek Ibn?

If not.....make take the big BLINKERS off your eyes mate. Can you get anymore lopsided in your views???

The "norm for non-Muslims" but not for Muslims.......mate......if you believe that.....you must believe in fairies too.........

#128 Jimmy

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 11:38 AM

Ive never understood men's rationale for taking on a second wife. If its for social justice reasons, loking after a widow and whatot, then thats understandable. He is performing a social function.

But when men use their " increased hormones" to justify taking a second wife, thats just vile.



Haven't these men ever heard of opening their wallets? It's called charity.....Christians are pretty well known for it.

#129 Sabrinee

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 11:49 AM

Haven't these men ever heard of opening their wallets? It's called charity.....Christians are pretty well known for it.


Well the argument is that these women also would need a mate which is understandable considering extra-marital relations arent allowed in Islam.

However any other justification, especially the whole " men need to have constant sex othewise theyll cheat" is ridiculous, pathetic, apologetic and quite frankly warrants a good kick in the proverbial.
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#130 alaq

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 11:51 AM

Haven't these men ever heard of opening their wallets? It's called charity.....Christians are pretty well known for it.


Muslims generally are quiet about their charity
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#131 Jimmy

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:09 PM

Muslims generally are quiet about their charity



Quiet about the giving or taking part.

#132 stopnot

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:45 PM

Adopting orphans is also an alternative to marrying his/her mother – the mother can be financed independently on charitable grounds.

Azerbaijan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Tunisia and Turkey have already prohibited polygamy while the rest of Muslim populated countries have made it really difficult to practice. Only Arab states are continuing their tribal traditions to rule over their interpretation of Islam.

Slavery and concubines were prohibited long time although as practices they also feature exactly as polygamy does in the Holy Quran but it seems polygamy will take a bit longer to be outlawed worldwide.
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#133 alaq

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 01:01 PM

Azerbaijan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Tunisia and Turkey have already prohibited polygamy while the rest of Muslim populated countries have made it really difficult to practice.


Azerbaijan, Turkey, Tunisia and France ban hijabs as well. Whats your point?
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#134 pepe

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 01:30 PM

Haven't these men ever heard of opening their wallets? It's called charity.....Christians are pretty well known for it.

Really? Well let me show you what I was reading.

In 1845, the onset of the Great Irish Famine resulted in over 1,000,000 deaths. Ottoman Sultan Abdülmecid declared his intention to send 10,000 sterling to Irish farmers but Queen Victoria requested that the Sultan send only 1,000 sterling, because she had sent only 2,000 sterling. The Sultan sent the 1,000 sterling but also secretly sent 3 ships full of food. The English courts tried to block the ships, but the food arrived Drogheda harbor and was left there by Ottoman Sailors.

link

Seems like Muslims are too generous for Christians liking. ;)
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#135 stopnot

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 01:30 PM

France is not a Muslims populated country but a country where some Muslims live - they must be able to call the laws of their own land.
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#136 Jimmy

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 01:44 PM

Really? Well let me show you what I was reading.


link



Looks like just another anecdote.

#137 Jimmy

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 01:45 PM

Slavery and concubines were prohibited long time although as practices they also feature exactly as polygamy does in the Holy Quran but it seems polygamy will take a bit longer to be outlawed worldwide.



Times change......but some people will fight it.....kicking or screaming.

#138 muslimeh

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 12:35 PM

Times change......but some people will fight it.....kicking or screaming.

but why do you care if people knowingly engage in polygamy?

and btw, muslims are encouraged to be anonymous when it comes to charity.
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#139 coachMusa

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

:raisedbrow:
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#140 coachMusa

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

Link
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Wal'hamdhu'lil'lah aw'wal'lan wa akh'he'ran ||||| Alhumdulilla'ala'kulli'hal |||| How did you come to Islam?



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