[taqwa]

http://www.news.com..../stor...5001021,00.html

ONE of Australia's major banks is planning to introduce "Muslim-friendly" loans that do not charge interest, to comply with Sharia law.

[ocean]

nice! but essentially its the same thing isnt it?? they have to make some profit i guess...
the only difference is that it will be fixed profit....so realy like fixed interest.

[kabdu]

ocean, on Jun 14 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

nice! but essentially its the same thing isnt it?? they have to make some profit i guess...
the only difference is that it will be fixed profit....so realy like fixed interest.

ASA Ocean,

I suggest you read up about it and ask a scholar (preferrably one with qualifications in economics/finance as well). Your reaction is typical of a lot of people until they delve more deeply into the various instruments of Islamic Finance. I thought so too until I researched it more deeply.

One concern I have, though, is that it appears that certain instruments are more appropriate for certain applications. I sincerely hope that the instruments are being applied in the spirit originally intended.

Khaled

[ahmedk]

Salaam

I am proud to say that MuslimVillage, as part of a whole range of new exciting "real world" initiatives it will be launching over the next 6-12 mths, have been in advanced discussions with NAB about the micro interest free $1000 loan scheme (Qard Hassan).

We Inshallah will be offering this product to the community, Muslim and Non-Muslim, in the Sydney area.

We will provide more details once we are closer to launch Inshallah.

W'Salaam
Ahmed

[cheesegirl]

That sounds great!

[ahmedk]

Just to give you a little bit more info, the product will be available for low income earners who are looking to purchase personal/household items (eg. white goods, furniture, electricals) and are unable to obtain finance elsewhere.

Once they meet the strict qualification criteria, the applicant will need to provide a quote for the item they intend to purchase. Payment will then be provided directly to the retailer and repaid by the applicant via repayments from their Centrelink payments.

Alhamdulillah we are really excited and honoured to be involved with this project. Inshallah we are in the process of formalising our agreement with NAB and this product could be the first step in a whole range of future Islamic products Inshallah.

Please don't ask me any more questions as all will be revealed once we launch Inshallah.

W'Salaam
Ahmed

[MrWarraEnib]

Which Bank ? No not the commonwealth bank anymore for me, if it goes through would change my bank deposits to NAB..

[kabdu]

ahmedk, on Jun 14 2009, 11:45 AM, said:

Please don't ask me any more questions as all will be revealed once we launch Inshallah.

Aww. That's just cruel.

[tr3x]

The stupidity of the Daily Telmecrap readers is highlighted in the readers comments.

As for the Daily Telmecrap it has put up a deliberate headline aimed at getting the racists in this country all riled up.

[Sam]

Good to hear from you taqwa, I was just thinking about you the other day.

[amats]

not to be anyone's proverbial thorn in the butt or anything...

but since when did the source of funding become a non-issue?
i'm pretty sure anything to do with NAB will be riba-based money...

...?

[cheesegirl]

tr3x, on Jun 14 2009, 02:47 PM, said:

The stupidity of the Daily Telmecrap readers is highlighted in the readers comments.

Its scary though, seriously. How is possible that almost every single person who commented on that article was fooled into thinking only Muslims are allowed to have the loan?? No way the country is filled with so many idiots!

[Hassan2jz]

ocean, on Jun 14 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

nice! but essentially its the same thing isnt it?? they have to make some profit i guess...
the only difference is that it will be fixed profit....so realy like fixed interest.

A scholar once explained to me, it might be similar but not quite the same thing.
Imagine if you have a sheep, you can slaughter it to produce halal meat, or slaugther it to produce haram meat.
The difference is in the process. And Allah (swt) knows best.

[~Summer~]

These small loans are being put out there to see the interest (no pun intended!) and demand for Islamic financed loans. I think we should all take out one of these small loans, regardless of whether we need it or not to encourage NAB to offer larger loans and introduce these loans as mainstream.

[Sam]

amats, on Jun 14 2009, 03:54 PM, said:

not to be anyone's proverbial thorn in the butt or anything...

but since when did the source of funding become a non-issue?
i'm pretty sure anything to do with NAB will be riba-based money...

...?

Not all the money in the bank is riba, some of it is from people's deposits.

[amats]

Sam, on Jun 14 2009, 04:46 PM, said:

Not all the money in the bank is riba, some of it is from people's deposits.

hmmm fair enough.

maybe when they start releasing some documents we can read the measures they have in place to ensure it is sharia-compliant.

[kabdu]

Sam, on Jun 14 2009, 04:46 PM, said:

Not all the money in the bank is riba, some of it is from people's deposits.

I have heard (with my own ears) and read from several scholars that the source of the money is not relevent. It's the contract that makes it halal or haram.

Don't put restrictions on yourselves that weren't there to start with.


Khaled

[amats]

kabdu, on Jun 14 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

I have heard (with my own ears) and read from several scholars that the source of the money is not relevent. It's the contract that makes it halal or haram.

Don't put restrictions on yourselves that weren't there to start with.


Khaled

Evidence plz.

[kabdu]

amats, on Jun 14 2009, 05:46 PM, said:

Evidence plz.

I'm sorry I can't give you evidence because I was referring to the words of scholars, not hadith or Quran. This is the type of thing where ignorant people like me should not argue the finer points. I said that I had heard from Scholars precisely because that is where you should go for such a ruling. I am not a scholar so I'm glad you are not taking my word for it. Please go ask a scholar before you place more restrictions than may be necessary. If the scholar advises it is haram then you have your answer.

Further than this I am afraid I can't add any value so pls don't debate it with me.

[cheesegirl]

amats, on Jun 14 2009, 05:46 PM, said:

Evidence plz.

It is because the Prophet pbuh borrowed money from the Jews and they used to deal heavily in interest.

[Mosty]

^What makes them not-halal? And they're not offering properties for loan, only household items.

[pepe]

Quote

1) NAB is Not offering an 'Hallal' product; simply, because they are not Hallal, & by supporting them [as a client], what you are doing is not Hallal.

You better be able to back that up with real evidence.

[muslimeh]

ALEEFSF, on Jun 14 2009, 08:13 PM, said:

As-Salamu Allaykum, All,

BEWARE:[/b]
1) NAB is Not offering an 'Hallal' product; simply, because they are not Hallal, & by supporting them [as a client], what [i][b]you are doing is not Hallal.

so you are saying we cannot conduct any business with any non-halal person or organisation?

[Mosty]

tr3x, on Jun 14 2009, 02:47 PM, said:

The stupidity of the Daily Telmecrap readers is highlighted in the readers comments.

As for the Daily Telmecrap it has put up a deliberate headline aimed at getting the racists in this country all riled up.

Arn't they just!? Far out... I'm reading the comments now and I cannot believe the stupidity of the people, it's like they didn't even read the article, just looked at the heading. Crazy man... seriously that's so damn decietful of the DT.

[tr3x]

Mosty, on Jun 14 2009, 09:05 PM, said:

Arn't they just!? Far out... I'm reading the comments now and I cannot believe the stupidity of the people, it's like they didn't even read the article, just looked at the heading. Crazy man... seriously that's so damn decietful of the DT.

Its unbelievable and the Telmecrap was deliberate in misrepresenting the article.

[Othman]

ahmedk, on Jun 14 2009, 11:45 AM, said:

Once they meet the strict qualification criteria, the applicant will need to provide a quote for the item they intend to purchase. Payment will then be provided directly to the retailer and repaid by the applicant via repayments from their Centrelink payments.

I'd be interested in seeing how they get around having two contracts in one, which has been a major stumbling block for 'Islamic' banks in providing this sort of contract which seeks to be a hybrid of a loan contract and a sale contract, which are two separate contracts in origin.

[fatma]

tr3x, on Jun 14 2009, 02:47 PM, said:

The stupidity of the Daily Telmecrap readers is highlighted in the readers comments.

As for the Daily Telmecrap it has put up a deliberate headline aimed at getting the racists in this country all riled up.

stop looking at it tr3x

[free radical]

Obviously we all know that the NAB would not be offering this new product unless they made money from it.

Bearing that in mind, I'm very interested to see how these $1000 "microloans" will differ from a standard fixed-interest loan. I'm no Muslim, but I know you can't get around the usury ban just by calling it something else.

[Stanley Hammer]

Wow... Talk about 'smoke and mirrors'... Banks need to make a profit, so no matter how you package it or how much spin you throw on it, you'll still be paying interest. It might travel under a different name, but still amounts to the very same thing. Banks aren't charities.

The article says, "Muslim mortgage often works by the bank buying the property, then selling it to the customer at a profit, with the customer then repaying the entire sum in instalments."

Sure sounds like interest to me... albeit they choose to use the word 'profit'...

Now, my question is - How can this be claimed to be 'halal' when interest payments clearly take place? Isn't this a feeble attempt to try and dupe Allah in order to be seen to be doing the right thing? Even hypocritical?

[free radical]

I wonder if there's a reason the NAB are being so vague on the detail right now. The article in the OP mentions "profit sharing" and "joint venture" arrangements, in lieu of the traditional interest-based approach to lending. Where is the profit to be shared in the purchase of a whitegood? That makes no sense unless the borrower plans on using the whitegood as part of a profit-making venture.

The key question that will need to be answered is this: "How does this type of lending differ from a traditional fixed-interest contract?". Exactly how a money lender could package a loan so that it circumvents the issue of usury is something I have spent a considerable amount of time pondering over. I must admit, I can't wait to see what the NAB have come up with. Details, please!