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Christening, Is It Ok To Go?


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#1 umisa

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:09 PM

salams all,

a friend of mine has invited me to her sons christening. they are having the church service then a reception thingy at a hall after.

i've never been invited to a christening before, so i'm really not sure what is appropriate.

i'm sure it would be inappropriate to go to the church, but is it ok for me to go to the hall, or would it be wrong to go to that too?

i see her often, i could just visit her at home at a later date.

what would be the best thing to do?
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#2 freeman

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:12 PM

dont go

#3 Moby

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:28 PM

salams all,

a friend of mine has invited me to her sons christening. they are having the church service then a reception thingy at a hall after.

i've never been invited to a christening before, so i'm really not sure what is appropriate.

i'm sure it would be inappropriate to go to the church, but is it ok for me to go to the hall, or would it be wrong to go to that too?

i see her often, i could just visit her at home at a later date.

what would be the best thing to do?


There's nothing wrong with going to a church. What's wrong in observing/learning how others do their thing? We would never say No if a non-muslim wanted to just come to a mosque or a Khatme-Quran. In fact, we encourage it - so non-muslims know about Islam; not by means of conversion - but just to educate. Whats wrong with doing it the opposite.

All they do is put holy water on a cute baby in a white dress. lol. Big Deal.
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#4 umisa

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 10:37 PM

i have no problem going into a church, i've done it many times as a way of learning about different religous practices, but the whole point is if i go, i'll be there as a witness to this child being made 'officially' christian.

isn't that wrong? well, it feels wrong to me, anyways. she's a good friend, but i just don't know if it would be right islamically to be present at a christening. i don't want to be there if it's not right, you know? :unsure:
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#5 lulu44

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 11:45 PM

Sis,

I personally dont find anything wrong with it, i mean its not like ur joining in with their practices, ur merely observing. However, if something in you is making u uncomfortable with the idea, remember the words of our beloved prophet (saw) who said:

"If action pricks your conscience, forsake it"

I guess its all about what your comfortable with!
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#6 freeman

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 12:53 AM

There's nothing wrong with going to a church. What's wrong in observing/learning how others do their thing? We would never say No if a non-muslim wanted to just come to a mosque or a Khatme-Quran. In fact, we encourage it - so non-muslims know about Islam; not by means of conversion - but just to educate. Whats wrong with doing it the opposite.

All they do is put holy water on a cute baby in a white dress. lol. Big Deal.

 


[mod: personal attack]



it is not permitted to go into their places of worship. for that matter the prophet told us NOT to even read there books.

#7 Aqidah_police

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 01:02 AM

It is a religous event, so no.

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: it is not permissible for the Muslims to attend the festivals of the mushrikeen, according to the consensus of the scholars whose words carry weight. The fuqaha’ who follow the four schools of thought have stated this clearly in their books… Al-Bayhaqi narrated with a saheeh isnaad from ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab that he said: “Do not enter upon the mushrikeen in their churches on the day of their festival, for divine wrath is descending upon them.” And ‘Umar also said: “Avoid the enemies of Allaah on their festivals.” Al-Bayhaqi narrated with a jayyid isnaad from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr that he said: “Whoever settles in the land of the non-Arabs and celebrates their new year and festival and imitates them until he dies in that state, will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection.” (Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah, 1/723-724).


Edited by Aqidah_police, 22 July 2007 - 01:06 AM.

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#8 undecided1

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 01:20 AM

i say if you feel uncomortable in going to the church, at least make an appearance at the reception to pay your congratulations... you say she is a good friend so i think there is nothing wrong with at least showing up to the hall considerign she took the initiative to invite you.

Would you feel upset if she didnt go to your daughters wedding because there would be a shiek or religious practices? - something to think about i think.
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#9 DesertRose`

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 01:26 AM


[mod: personal attack]

it is not permitted to go into their places of worship. for that matter the prophet told us NOT to even read there books.

 


Please discuss the topic without categorising people. That attitude will not be tolerated around here.
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#10 Teggeh

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 01:26 AM

Do not enter upon the mushrikeen in their churches on the day of their festival, for divine wrath is descending upon them.”

I take that to mean Christian holy days i.e. Christmas, Easter, Lent etc.


“Avoid the enemies of Allaah on their festivals.”

Would also in my opinion probably refer to Pagans rather than Christians, if "we" are the enemies of Allah, then why would "we" be welcome in an Islamic state?

“Whoever settles in the land of the non-Arabs and celebrates their new year and festival and imitates them until he dies in that state, will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection.”

I wouldn't say you are imitating 'us' until you die, one day, and you're not even imitating 'us', attending church doesn't make you Christian, being Baptised does. You have no obligation to stand and pray, you wouldn't be frowned upon if you remained seated during the various hymns that are sung, nor would you have to participate in any religion ceremony.


Again, I'm not a Muslim, just my opinion on the quotes given.
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#11 al-CIAda

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 04:20 AM

a christening is the dedication the child to the worship of jesus and the belief in christianity - i.e the dedication to a lifetime of shirk. to go and provide moral support etc to the family while they partake in this act is possibly (note: i said POSSIBLY) tantamount to an act of shirk in itself.

i would seriously recommend not going.

Edited by al-CIAda, 22 July 2007 - 04:26 AM.

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#12 SirZubair

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:50 AM

i would seriously recommend not going.

 


Ditto.
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#13 MrWarraEnib

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 11:06 AM

ditto 2
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#14 Hasaan Moyle

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 02:02 PM

Would your friends come and perform prayers with you?

Would they fast 30 days with you?
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#15 Niche

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 02:39 PM

let's not forget the purpose behind a christening.
" A clear conscience makes a soft pillow "

#16 KyLaP

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 04:40 PM

........................

Edited by LilOldMe, 22 July 2007 - 05:01 PM.

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#17 OhMyGod!

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:05 PM

........................

 


Are you giving chilena are run for her money sis? :P :ph34r:
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#18 313

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:05 PM

It is not haraam for a Muslim to visit a Church LilOldME, but the reasons behind this are different. Though I must ask, would being christened make the child a Christian in the eyes of Allah (swt)? We are all born Muslim, and this child has no control over the christening etc etc, so is he still considered a "Muslim" until he starts practising a religion?

Edited by 313, 22 July 2007 - 05:06 PM.


#19 SirZubair

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:10 PM

It is not haraam for a Muslim to visit a Church LilOldME, but the reasons behind this are different. Though I must ask, would being christened make the child a Christian in the eyes of Allah (swt)? We are all born Muslim, and this child has no control over the christening etc etc, so is he still considered a "Muslim" until he starts practising a religion?

 

There is a well known hadith that states that every child is born in the state of FITRA.

For some reason, Muslims often translate this into english as "Every child is born a Muslim"

But the Hadith says FITRA, which means that people are born INCLINED TO FAITH - Born with an intuitive awareness of divine purpose and a nature built to receive the prophetic message. What remains then is to nurture ones Fitra and cultivae this inclination to faith and purity of heart.

- Shaykh Hamza Yusuf.


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#20 Lantern

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:13 PM

There's nothing wrong with going to a church. What's wrong in observing/learning how others do their thing? We would never say No if a non-muslim wanted to just come to a mosque or a Khatme-Quran. In fact, we encourage it - so non-muslims know about Islam; not by means of conversion - but just to educate. Whats wrong with doing it the opposite.

All they do is put holy water on a cute baby in a white dress. lol. Big Deal.

 


You're comparing two different things. We cant participate in any non-muslim religious ceremonies. Thats the Islamic position. Non muslims are welcome to the mosque to learn, but if its against their religion to celebrate Eid with us, come to the mosque with us...then who's forcing them to? No one, so we shouldn't feel compelled to attend their ceremonies.

Sitting around and observing kufr rituals is not OK.

Sis,

I personally dont find anything wrong with it,

 


Personal opinions are irrelevant when there is an Islamic injuntion on the issue, so please provide scholarly evidence to support your personal opinion.

I guess its all about what your comfortable with!


Not really. You can take a position that your comfortable with provided that it is a valid position to begin with. If you're 'comfortable' to sit in a pub without drinking alcohol but just observe, it doesn't make it ok.

Better not to go, wouldn't want people to think that muslims are open minded... What's the difference if a catholic wants to go to a Mosque etc?

 


That's uncalled for. Muslims can be completely open minded to intellectual discussions about other faiths without participating in a ceremony that contradicts their faith. If a catholic wants to attend a mosque, they can but we dont force them. So why should we feel obliged to go to the church when no catholic feels obliged to attend friday prayers at the mosque. Should I feel offended if I invite a friend to the mosque and she declines? or assume she is not open minded?


See this sunnipath answer on a similar topic.
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#21 313

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:35 PM

 


Interesting, Jazzaks Sir Zubair.

But would the child be considered a Christian in the eyes of Allah (swt) just because he is "christened"...or is it not until they start practising a religion that we can label one as such?

#22 pepe

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:48 PM

........................

 

ditto
you really have 2 choices
1. go and if you feel badly or not "right" just walk out
2. ask someone qualified to give a judgment on the permissibility of going to a baptism.
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#23 Al-muntahaa

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:48 PM

Not really.  You can take a position that your comfortable with provided that it is a valid position to begin with.  If you're 'comfortable' to sit in a pub without drinking alcohol but just observe, it doesn't make it ok.

 


I'd be more comfortable sitting in a pub than walking into a bank.
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#24 Lantern

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:57 PM

I'd be more comfortable sitting in a pub than walking into a bank.

 


Edit: hmmm, its so hard to knwo when your serious Al M.


By the way the link I provided from sunnipath said this-

it is impermissible to attend a church ceremony except if one is called upon by one's parents or grandparents -- and then only from a distance as far as possible, or from outside the ceremony and its locale unless one wishes to be visited by the unblessedness of defying our Lord and disobeying Him;


A church ceremony I take as being inclusive of baptism.

Edited by Tasnia, 22 July 2007 - 06:29 PM.

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#25 Hasaan Moyle

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 06:04 PM

You don't have to go to a church to be uncomfortably challenged and confronted. If you know your deen you can go anywhere and just get along with people.

I went to a birthday party today (a little kid turned 2) and an old Iranian guy tried really hard to lure me toward the B'hai faith.
He claimed that the Qur'an states that another prophet will come after Muhummad :pbuh:

I made an excuse to leave the room and then left the party through the back door.
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#26 313

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 06:08 PM

The action of going to the church isn't the issue, I am sure that any place of worship is ok (someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong), but the difference here is that she will be celebrating the christening of a child and that is what is causing the controversy.

So the real question is not if visiting a church is ok, but actually partaking in the christening celebrations.

#27 KyLaP

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 07:03 PM

You're comparing two different things.  We cant participate in any non-muslim religious ceremonies.  Thats the Islamic position.  Non muslims are welcome to the mosque to learn, but if its against their religion to celebrate Eid with us, come to the mosque with us...then who's forcing them to? No one, so we shouldn't feel compelled to attend their ceremonies.

Sitting around and observing kufr rituals is not OK.
Personal opinions are irrelevant when there is an Islamic injuntion on the issue, so please provide scholarly evidence to support your personal opinion.
Not really.  You can take a position that your comfortable with provided that it is a valid position to begin with.  If you're 'comfortable' to sit in a pub without drinking alcohol but just observe, it doesn't make it ok.
That's uncalled for.  Muslims can be completely open minded to intellectual discussions about other faiths without participating in a ceremony that contradicts their faith.  If a catholic wants to attend a mosque, they can but we dont force them.  So why should we feel obliged to go to the church when no catholic feels obliged to attend friday prayers at the mosque.  Should I feel offended if I invite a friend to the mosque and she declines? or assume she is not open minded?
See this sunnipath answer on a similar topic.

 


I'm not saying that they can't be open minded to intellectual discussions at all. Just from coming on Muslim Village i can see this. All am i saying that is i personally don't see an issue with it. I remember when my friends mother passed away and a lady in hijab came to the church service which included mass and many people commented on how good it was to see that this women there. For one person they spoke to the lady and she got to give dawah to them. But that's just my opinion
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#28 KyLaP

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 07:05 PM

Are you giving chilena are run for her money sis? :P  :ph34r:

 



Lol trying hun..... somehow i just don't think i'll make it! :P
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#29 KyLaP

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 07:05 PM

Are you giving chilena are run for her money sis? :P  :ph34r:

 



Lol trying hun..... somehow i just don't think i'll make it! :P
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#30 umisa

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Posted 22 July 2007 - 09:24 PM


[mod: personal attack]

it is not permitted to go into their places of worship. for that matter the prophet told us NOT to even read there books.

 


really? we're not allowed to even read their books? i've read several bibles. my parents always told me that it's good to know what others believe. it allows us to show similarities between faiths rather than argue about differences, leading to better interfaith relations.

It is a religous event, so no.

QUOTE
Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: it is not permissible for the Muslims to attend the festivals of the mushrikeen, according to the consensus of the scholars whose words carry weight. The fuqaha’ who follow the four schools of thought have stated this clearly in their books… Al-Bayhaqi narrated with a saheeh isnaad from ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab that he said: “Do not enter upon the mushrikeen in their churches on the day of their festival, for divine wrath is descending upon them.” And ‘Umar also said: “Avoid the enemies of Allaah on their festivals.” Al-Bayhaqi narrated with a jayyid isnaad from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr that he said: “Whoever settles in the land of the non-Arabs and celebrates their new year and festival and imitates them until he dies in that state, will be gathered with them on the Day of Resurrection.” (Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah, 1/723-724).

 


i consider it a religious celebration, that's why i don't feel right about it. Jazak Allah for the hadith

Would you feel upset if she didnt go to your daughters wedding because there would be a shiek or religious practices? - something to think about i think.

 


no, to be honest, i wouldn't be upset or offended. if there was a problem regarding religious practices. we have our beliefs and they have theirs. her father is the priest performing the christening, her family are lovely people. they would understand if i couldn't go. i just wasn't sure if it was permissible to attend such a celebration islamically.

a christening is the dedication the child to the worship of jesus and the belief in christianity - i.e the dedication to a lifetime of shirk.  to go and provide moral support etc to the family while they partake in this act is possibly (note: i said POSSIBLY)  tantamount to an act of shirk in itself.

i would seriously recommend not going.

 


yeah, that's what i was thinking too

Would your friends come and perform prayers with you?

Would they fast 30 days with you?

 


actually, i've had friends do just that. they take the time to understand my beliefs like i do with theirs. it's the reason why some of my closest friends are not muslim (one day, InshaAllah ;) ) Alhumdulilah, i have very good friends.

Jazak Allah to everyone that has replied, i've told my friend and her husband i'll not be attending the christening and they're fine with it. i'm just going to visit them at home like i usually do. :)
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