[Mowlana Vector]

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A Whirling Sufi Revival With Unclear Implications

Three circles of barefoot men, one ring inside another, sway to the cadence of chant.

The men stamp in time as they sway, and grunt from the abdomen and throat, filling the room with a primal sound. One voice rises over the rest, singing variants of the names of God.

The men stop, face right and walk counterclockwise, slowly at first, then fast. As they gain speed they begin to hop on their outside feet and draw closer. The three circles merge into a spinning ball.

The ball stops. It opens back up. The stamping resumes, softly at first, then louder. Many of the men are entranced. The air around them hums. The wooden floor shakes. The men turn left and accelerate the other way.

This is a zikr, the mystical Sufi dance of the Caucasus and a ritual near the center of Chechen Islam.

Here inside Chechnya, where Russia has spent six years trying to contain the second Chechen war since the Soviet Union collapsed, traditional forms of religious expression are returning to public life. It is a revival laden with meaning, and with implications that are unclear.  More ...

[Mowlana Vector]

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"Dust on the Path of Muhammad”: Interview with Shems Friedlander

Shems Friedlander, “born in the heart of New York City”, is not just an award-winning graphic designer, but an accomplished photographer, painter, poet, and author on Rumi and Sufism. For the last 11 years, he has been teaching Graphic Communications in the Journalism Department of the American University in Cairo. After more than 30 years of research into the world of Rumi and the ‘Whirling Dervishes’, and having documented much of it already into several well-known books, he has more recently ventured into the realm of film-making.



In May 2005, he launched a two-film DVD set, the first two parts in a series of films on dhikrullah, and aspects of Sufism, which he has collectively called “The World of Rumi”. The set includes a visual biography of Rumi and the Whirling Dervishes, “Rumi: The Wings of Love”; and a new film of the annual khalwa [seclusion] ceremony of the Demerdache Khalwati Order in Cairo, “Al-Mahya: Come to Life”. It also includes a short interview with the director himself. A third film, “Circles of Remembrance”, which deals exclusively with the various practices of dhikr [remembrance of God] around the world, and contains many interviews with sheikhs and scholars, is due out later on this year. He talks to Isla Rosser-Owen about his films, and his love for Rumi -- founder of the Mevlevi Order and mystical poet, whose magnum opus, The Mathnawi, is some 26,000 verses long.

Continue Reading ...

[Aaisha]

You can now find the Mevlevis in Australia!



Mevlevi Australia

[Mowlana Vector]

AA

Aaisha, Jazak for the info, Sis.

w'salaam

[Sarah Rezip]

this thread raises some very beneficial questioning,

for example the simplicity of the questioning that if an act is not Halal is it therefore Haram, that is simply answered with knowing if it is not Haram it is not automatically Halal, obviously

the act of worship, in any Dance, Art, Music, or other form of Work, must only be regarded as Halal when such is truly simultaneously an act of Worship of none before Allah, and inspiring of observers into worship of none before Allah

But further as this thread has taken the discussion of the fact of turning in circles, I am a beleiver that there are specific truths to such Dances, and that certainly in the performance of the performers must be specially prepared in order that the Dance is truly an act of Worship of Allah

Consider the fact of those tribes whom are raised within experiential knowledge such that they are almost entirely incapable of escaping any circle drawn around them. It is a known fact that such peoples exist, it is an aspect of their culture that is not possible to eradicate, and yet these people are Moslem also. Therefore those who study the phenomena can conclude only that there is a scientific reality that other persons may not be quite so well informed of. I wondered upon the matter my self for some years before obtaining evidence through a Rosicrucian occult source in reading material from a local bookshop, that provided a secondary reference point for such phenomena. Frighteningly also providing me with the knowledge that among Western occultists, whom work without Allah, are such practises being abused. Therefore, surely we could not fault the simple tribal people whom value the knowledge of what happens when a person is encircled or forms a circle in dance, to the point of fearing the consequences of, while other people hate all that is good by using such knowledge to attempt to escape their own retribution

Therefore in Islam alone can we be Judged, and in the mind of every whirling Dervish their own answer

[Mowlana Vector]

Riyad as-Salihin: On the Excellence of Circles of Dhikr ...

[hameed]

I am trying so hard to convince myself that it is a good Bed'ah, but then again I just cannot bring myself to accept it... Do these whirling Darvishes do this in order to please Allah or entice the audience and show non-Muslims that "See Islam has dancing in it as well."

For me it still stays as a contraversial matter and I will avoid it just in case...

"Verily, the best of speech is the Book of Allah, and the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (s.a.w), and the evil of all religious matters is their innovations. Every innovation is a bid'ah, and every bid'ah is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the Fire."

This post has been edited by hameed: 03 August 2007 - 10:16 AM

[JJJ]

hameed, on Aug 3 2007, 10:11 AM, said:

I am trying so hard to convince myself that it is a good Bed'ah, but then again I just cannot bring myself to accept it... Do these whirling Darvishes do this in order to please Allah or entice the audience and show non-Muslims that "See Islam has dancing in it as well."

For me it still stays as a contraversial matter and I will avoid it just in case...

"Verily, the best of speech is the Book of Allah, and the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (s.a.w), and the evil of all religious matters is their innovations. Every innovation is a bid'ah, and every bid'ah is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the Fire."

exactly.

also, isn't there a hadith where it's states that if there is doubt in a matter (i.e. doubt as to whether it is permissable or not) u should avoid it just in case?

This post has been edited by JJJ: 03 August 2007 - 10:33 AM

[al-CIAda]

yeah i also have issues with this but allahu a3lam... if you look at the thread about group dhikr in this same section you'll see the evidences of why they believe this is totally permissible, and i must say.. they're strong evidences. the prophet s.a.w and Allah s.w.t told us to make dhikr, but didnt specify to do it in a specifc method in the same way that the prophet s.a.w did for salat. If they're honestly making dhikr then, may Allah ta3ala accept it. if their motivations are something else, or if they're just spinning as part of a performance or something - then Allah ta3ala knows everything and will treat them according to their intentions. the prophet s.a.w said actions are but by intentions, so i hope their intentions truely are making sincere dhirk and nothing else, otherwise they could be in a spot of trouble. i'm not heartened by some of the many stories i've heard of turkish dervishes from sister Astral. It also makes me wonder if you can construe anything as dhikr now. could u start break dancing and say you're doing dhikr? or juggling balls or doing pushups? i'm not sure where the line gets drawn. allahu a3lam.

may Allah ta3ala guide us all to that which is most correct.

This post has been edited by al-CIAda: 03 August 2007 - 12:50 PM

[JJJ]

al-CIAda, on Aug 3 2007, 12:47 PM, said:

It also makes me wonder if you can construe anything as dhikr now.  could u start break dancing and say you're doing dhikr? or juggling balls or doing pushups?  i'm not sure where the line gets drawn.  allahu a3lam.

in the US, there is a christian group that do weights, they call it "pumping iron for Jesus". to me, that just seems to make a mockery of religion, since it makes u think they needed to spice it up to make people interested.

on where to draw the line, i'm not sure, but if i'm not comfortable with something, i avoid it. when it comes to dhikr, i would stick to listening to the Quran or reciting the Quran. that's a proper form of dhikr without a doubt.

Quote

may Allah ta3ala guide us all to that which is most correct.

Ameen, may Allah (swt) guide us to what is correct.

This post has been edited by JJJ: 03 August 2007 - 12:58 PM

[Mosty]

Hmm... same here. It just doesn't sit well... I really want to look deep into this topic. I mean yeah okay, it might not be specified on how to do dhikr, but doing it while twirling in front of people? ... why? I mean... why in front of people? Twirl all you want at home... but to make it a concert? Eugh... I dunno.

I just see dhikhr as a time for deep reflection. It's like... alone time with Allah (s.w.t) I can't see myself deeply reflecting while twirling in front of people... I mean it's meant to ease my heart... not speed it up.

Kheir Insha'Allah... remembering Allah (s.w.t) is one of the weapons we Muslims have and will always have. And once the fitnah of Al-Dajjal befalls us... all we will have for sustenance is the rememberance of Allah.

[JJJ]

the whirling reminds me of those dancers u have at weddings over in the Middle East.
i can't imagine how it is a form of dhikr though.

edit - i just googled some pics, and yeah, it IS those dancers u see in weddings. I can't believe i was at a wedding where that kind of stuff was on. i honestly had no idea it was meant to be dhikr

This post has been edited by JJJ: 03 August 2007 - 02:36 PM

[Mosty]

And why do they call it "sufism" or sufi dancing?

I really think saying that waters down the definition of Tassawuf considerably.

[hameed]

Mosty, on Aug 3 2007, 02:38 PM, said:

And why do they call it "sufism" or sufi dancing?

I really think saying that waters down the definition of Tassawuf considerably.

May Allah have mercy on Mawlana Jalaluddeen Balkhi (Rumi), I doubt he ever meant for this to go thus far.... Allahu A'lam

[JJJ]

hameed, on Aug 3 2007, 02:48 PM, said:

May Allah have mercy on Mawlana Jalaluddeen Balkhi (Rumi), I doubt he ever meant for this to go thus far.... Allahu A'lam

he will only be held responsible for his own actions.
he can't be held accountable for the actions of other people (unless he directed them to do it).

This post has been edited by JJJ: 03 August 2007 - 02:56 PM

[Sister-Ameena*]

hameed, on Aug 2 2007, 08:11 PM, said:

I am trying so hard to convince myself that it is a good Bed'ah, but then again I just cannot bring myself to accept it... Do these whirling Darvishes do this in order to please Allah or entice the audience and show non-Muslims that "See Islam has dancing in it as well."

For me it still stays as a contraversial matter and I will avoid it just in case...

"Verily, the best of speech is the Book of Allah, and the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (s.a.w), and the evil of all religious matters is their innovations. Every innovation is a bid'ah, and every bid'ah is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the Fire."

I was just talking to my sister about this and she said the exact same thing. I agree with your statement.

[Mowlana Vector]

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Dateline: Whirling Dervish



A few weeks back, Mark Davis reported on the Turkish elections whereas things turned out, Prime Minister Recep Erdongan won a resounding victory. Through the campaign Erdowan's opponents tried to label him as a pro-Islamist likely to abandon Turkey’s traditional secular state. Interestingly, the tension between Islam and secularism in Turkey is reflected in an age old local tradition, the whirling Dervishes. The Dervishes of course have been a tourist icon for yonks but as Mark found out on his recent visit, they are quite hypnotic rituals place them at odds with both the Turkish Government and other Turkish Muslims. More ...

[Mowlana Vector]

Media Alert:

ABC Radio National: The Whirling Dervishes Sydney Tour (10 August 2007, 7.35pm)




(Source)

[Mowlana Vector]

SunniPath: Gatherings of Dhikr (Silent, Loud, Collective)

[hameed]

al-CIAda, on Aug 3 2007, 12:47 PM, said:

yeah i also have issues with this but allahu a3lam... if you look at the thread about group dhikr in this same section you'll see the evidences of why they believe this is totally permissible, and i must say.. they're strong evidences.  the prophet s.a.w and Allah s.w.t told us to make dhikr, but didnt specify to do it in a specifc method in the same way that the prophet s.a.w did for salat. 

Well, the hardline belief would be to Tahrim the whole thing as a Bed'ah.... but it seems that the most logical opinion that I have come across is for it to be Mubah which means it could become Haram in certain situations.

Now whether their act is accepted by Allah as worship/dhikr that is up to Allah and their intention of course.

I am still researching. It will be great if we can find some references in the work of classic scholars. Present day Muftis will say it is Halal just for the sake of it.

[arabella]

JJJ, on Aug 3 2007, 03:30 PM, said:

the whirling reminds me of those dancers u have at weddings over in the Middle East.
i can't imagine how it is a form of dhikr though.

edit - i just googled some pics, and yeah, it IS those dancers u see in weddings. I can't believe i was at a wedding where that kind of stuff was on. i honestly had no idea it was meant to be dhikr     

jjj, having both been to Cairo and seen the whirlers at a dinner cruise, and then to Istanbul and seen the dervishes i can say there is a big DIFFERENCE, so please do not reduce it to a form of entertainment like the former.

the whirlers at weddings(mainly egyptian i assume as i haven't seen any in other arabian areas) engage the audience with tricks using the skirt-which detaches from the outfit and forms many different shapes etc, they also move around the audience and twirl above their tables etc, it is not dhikr at all, infact they are not even sufis-some not even muslim.

so regardless of whether you think the sema performance is justified or not, please do not compare it to a mere form of entertainment at a wedding.


if people have an issue whith whirling as a form of dhikr-why did they attend sounds of light? a concert where singing INFRONT OF AN AUDIENCE was presented?

is it just me who sees the irony here?

[Sabrinee]

Anonymous, on Sep 9 2003, 11:41 AM, said:

You can use the internet and make Dawah and it would be a form of worship. So "using the internet" could be a form of worship as well.
Now, did the Prophet [p] use it?
Did the Sahaba use it?  Did the Tabiun use it?
Name me a single scholar up until 1990's who could have used the internet; let alone making Dawah on the internet.
Now...does that mean Islam is deficient? Imperfect?

Ummm, how is anonymous posting when he/she is anonymous?

ive never seen that before. im kinda confused

[al-CIAda]

he/she probably registered the nickname "Anonymous"

This post has been edited by al-CIAda: 10 August 2007 - 04:33 PM

[Sam]

It happened when we converted forum software a few years ago.