[naqabi]

Alot of people don't know that Tim Tams are not Halal so I thought I'd put it here. The Arnotts people state that none of their cream biscuits are Halal, including Tim Tams. This is because they use Alcohol in their cream base. This is not stated in their ingredients because government legislation only requires presence of Alcohol to be listed on the packets if it is above a certain threshold and their products have less Alcohol than the legislated amount. Hence they will tell you if you call them but will not print it on their packet.

[Barnabas]

naqabi, on Dec 16 2006, 05:45 AM, said:

Alot of people don't know that Tim Tams are not Halal so I thought I'd put it here. The Arnotts people state that none of their cream biscuits are Halal, including Tim Tams. This is because they use Alcohol in their cream base. This is not stated in their ingredients because government legislation only requires presence of Alcohol to be listed on the packets if it is above a certain threshold and their products have less Alcohol than the legislated amount. Hence they will tell you if you call them but will not print it on their packet.

Could you please provide us with source and reference? As far too many times in the past, Muslims have spread so-called "food facts" amongst the community, only later to find out that it was nothing but falsehood.

I don't think you reason you stated is enough for them not too label their products as halal/non-halal, kosher/non-kosher etc.. (look at Cadbury website).

Not that I am doubting you but you know how chinese whispers is.

[Sam]

I just read this from their FAQ at http://www.arnotts.com.au/faq.aspx :

Quote

Q: Are any Arnott's biscuits Halal or Kosher certified?

A: Arnott's does not certify its products sold in Australia or New Zealand based on any particular religious beliefs or social preferences.

It's worded quite strangely I believe... as if on principle. I wonder if this has anything to do with the recent bad publicity that Halal labelling has been receiving.

Anyway, that's their choice. If Muslims want to consume them, then perhaps they should let them know that the lack of certification is a major factor in choosing other brands.

wasalaam
sam

[Sabrinee]

I heard about this a while ago but wasn't sure if it was true. I assumed that when they said alcohol they just meant it was used in making the actual flavour but vapourised afterwards.

[Jaaved]

I tried Dick Smith's Temptins once before and I thought they were a more than satisfactory substitute.

I guess it puts a new twist to Arnottt's catchphrase of 'there's no substitute for quality'

I'd recommend people support locally owned companies. The money goes back into OUR economy and into the pockets of Australians... not foreigners who are milking us for everything we're worth.

This post has been edited by Jaaved: 16 December 2006 - 11:16 AM

[naqabi]

Just give them a ring on their helpline or whatever it's called. The number is on every packet of Arnotts biscuits. Just ask them if Tim Tams are halal, you'll get your answer. I've tried on different days and different people have answered but they all give the same reply, that none of the Arnotts cream biscuits are halal.

Here's the number: 1800 24 24 92

Edit: And the Alcohol is not evaporated as it is in the cream. The biscuits are baked BEFORE the cream is put in/on them.

This post has been edited by naqabi: 16 December 2006 - 11:36 AM

[Frank]

There must surely be minimum limits to non-halal things. There's probably more alcohol in a slightly off (fermented) peach than a Tim-Tam.

[Abu_Ruqayyah]

well it seems to depend on the opinion you take. that of any alcohol what so ever the minute amont being haraam do to the hadeeth if alots haraam then so to is a little. but others have stated that only possible if its able to intoxicate. can you eat enough tim tam to intoxicate ? Allahu alam

im not stating either are correct just info from what i have read

[Sam]

I don't think it's clear that the alcohol is introduced, or if it is just a by-product.

If just a by-product, then I think there are grounds for it being ok to consume, Allahu aalim. Alcohol is a by-product of lots of cooking processes, eg the fermentation of yeast in bread. Yeast works by consuming sugar and excreting carbon dioxide and alcohol as byproducts.

However if they are refusing to certify their products, then there's no guarantee there won't be other haraam ingredients that are animal derived. In which case we should just stay clear.

[Hunter]

Years back I worked in quality control in a well known biscuit factory. As far as I know, there was no alcohol used in the making of any of the biscuits or the cream fillings. A lot of the bakers and others who worked in the manufacture were Muslims and Greek Orthodox as well a good sprinkling of most other racial/religious groups.

I think maybe one of the problems Muslims have with the cream fillings is purely of a linguistic nature, whereas most people regard anything called a 'liquor' as being alcoholic, this can quite often not be the case.

See this link: http://en.wikipedia....hocolate_liquor

Chocolate liquor, also known as cocoa liquor and cocoa mass, is a smooth liquid form of chocolate. It is produced by taking cocoa beans that have been fermented, dried, roasted, and separated from their shells and grinding their center, the cotyledon. The chocolate liquor can then be cooled and molded into blocks known as unsweetened baking chocolate. The liquor and blocks contain roughly 53 percent cocoa butter. Chocolate liquor contains no alcohol.

Then there's this word meaning:
liq·uor (lkr) KEY
NOUN:
An alcoholic beverage made by distillation rather than by fermentation.
A rich broth resulting from the prolonged cooking of meat or vegetables, especially greens. Also called pot liquor .
An aqueous solution of a nonvolatile substance.
A solution, emulsion, or suspension for industrial use.

Then you could read all these articles on liquor from Encyclopedia Brittanica which detail quite a range of absolutely non-alcoholic forms of liquor (plus a few alcoholic ones):
http://www.britannic...uery=liquor&ct=

[FlyinGenie]

Sam, on Dec 16 2006, 07:17 AM, said:

I just read this from their FAQ at http://www.arnotts.com.au/faq.aspx :
It's worded quite strangely I believe... as if on principle. I wonder if this has anything to do with the recent bad publicity that Halal labelling has been receiving.

Anyway, that's their choice. If Muslims want to consume them, then perhaps they should let them know that the lack of certification is a major factor in choosing other brands.

wasalaam
sam

wow that is worded wierdly!

malaysia has halal tim tams, i don't see why it would be hard for them to make the same ones for sale here in Australia. odd...

p.s. yep, chocolate liquor is not actually alcohol!

[Umm Ahmed]

FlyinGenie, on Dec 16 2006, 04:15 PM, said:

wow that is worded wierdly! 

malaysia has halal tim tams, i don't see why it would be hard for them to make the same ones for sale here in Australia.  odd...

p.s. yep, chocolate liquor is not actually alcohol!

Ok I am really confused by this liquor business in chocolates So if it has liquer in it what's the amount...


And for the record, Arnotts has tried to get certification quite a number of times but they have failed it for one reason or another. This was information given to me by the brother on the halal helpline, I've forgotten his name. That's probably why they now have that halal/kosher statement in their faq.

[Frank]

FlyinGenie, on Dec 16 2006, 04:15 PM, said:

malaysia has halal tim tams, i don't see why it would be hard for them to make the same ones for sale here in Australia.  odd...

Hmm - do they actually make Tim-Tams in Malaysia? I'd suspect that they just change the packaging...

[naqabi]

Sam, on Dec 16 2006, 02:11 PM, said:

I don't think it's clear that the alcohol is introduced, or if it is just a by-product.

If just a by-product, then I think there are grounds for it being ok to consume, Allahu aalim. Alcohol is a by-product of lots of cooking processes, eg the fermentation of yeast in bread.  Yeast works by consuming sugar and excreting carbon dioxide and alcohol as byproducts.

However if they are refusing to certify their products, then there's no guarantee there won't be other haraam ingredients that are animal derived. In which case we should just stay clear.

Sam the Arnotts representative I spoke to, told me that the alcohol is ADDED to the cream mixture to achieve the correct smoothness and consistancy. She also said that they couldn't maintain the quality of the cream biscuits without the alcohol.

To me there isn't much room for debate if you call a company and they say "Our product is NOT Halal due to the Alcohol we put in it".

[Hunter]

Did she actually use the word 'alcohol' or use the word 'liquor'?

[naqabi]

Hunter, on Dec 17 2006, 11:58 AM, said:

Did she actually use the word 'alcohol' or use the word 'liquor'?

She said Alcohol loud and clear! Not just once, a few times, and I even called up again just to double check and the second representative (a guy) told me the same thing all over again!!!

[littleozzybloke]

B) with respect here people....

breaking in on the seriousness of it all...and it could be..

but a point of being a non-muslim....you can eat all the yummy stuff..i couldn't live without my tim tams...or choccy teddy bears...or...or...

(my ouzo.. ) sorry bout that...

[naqabi]

littleozzybloke, on Dec 17 2006, 04:56 PM, said:

B) with respect here people....

breaking in on the seriousness of it all...and it could be..

but a point of being a non-muslim....you can eat all the yummy stuff..i couldn't live without my tim tams...or choccy teddy bears...or...or...

(my ouzo.. ) sorry bout that...

LOL! We'd rather eat our Tim Tams in Jannah thanks!

[Splotty]

Sam, on Dec 16 2006, 01:11 PM, said:

If just a by-product, then I think there are grounds for it being ok to consume, Allahu aalim. Alcohol is a by-product of lots of cooking processes, eg the fermentation of yeast in bread.  Yeast works by consuming sugar and excreting carbon dioxide and alcohol as byproducts.

It's a by-product of eating almost all carbohydrates.

[FlyinGenie]

Umm Ahmed, on Dec 16 2006, 02:56 PM, said:

Ok I am really confused by  this liquor business in chocolates So if it has liquer in it what's the amount...
And for the record, Arnotts has tried to get certification quite a number of times but they have failed it for one reason or another. This was information given to me by the brother on the halal helpline, I've forgotten his name. That's probably why they now have that halal/kosher statement in their faq.

sis when something says 'chocolate liquor' it means the chocolate syrup used to make solid chocolate not actual alcohol. all other liquers (note the difference in spelling) are alcohol. i think hunter posted more info about it.

Frank, on Dec 16 2006, 03:08 PM, said:

Hmm - do they actually make Tim-Tams in Malaysia? I'd suspect that they just change the packaging...

i dunno, all i remember is they had different flavours to here, smaller packets, and they were stamped halal. i bought heaps and then gobbled them all up. gobble gobble gobble!

[Fatimahnz]

FlyinGenie, on Dec 19 2006, 09:22 AM, said:

sis when something says 'chocolate liquor' it means the chocolate syrup used to make solid chocolate not actual alcohol.  all other liquers (note the difference in spelling) are alcohol.  i think hunter posted more info about it. 
i dunno, all i remember is they had different flavours to here, smaller packets, and they were stamped halal.  i bought heaps and then gobbled them all up.  gobble gobble gobble!

Tim Tams are definately Haram. I called and spoke to Chantelle in customer service who confirmed what Naqabi said. They put alcohol with the creme. Maa Shaa Allah may Allah reward her.

[Taliban Princess]

littleozzybloke, on Dec 17 2006, 05:56 PM, said:

but a point of being a non-muslim....you can eat all the yummy stuff..i couldn't live without my tim tams...or choccy teddy bears...or...or...

(my ouzo.. ) sorry bout that...

Yes, but I for one, enjoy having a perfectly functioning liver and the use of *all* my brain cells [which I might add, is perhaps why *you* found your 'joke' amusing, and the rest of us didn't?]

[Umm Ahmed]

Hunter, on Dec 16 2006, 02:55 PM, said:

Years back I worked in quality control in a well known biscuit factory.  As far as I know, there was no alcohol used in the making of any of the biscuits or the cream fillings.  A lot of the bakers and others who worked in the manufacture were Muslims and Greek Orthodox as well a good sprinkling of most other racial/religious groups.

I think maybe one of the problems Muslims have with the cream fillings is purely of a linguistic nature, whereas most people regard anything called a 'liquor' as being alcoholic, this can quite often not be the case.

See this link:  http://en.wikipedia....hocolate_liquor

Chocolate liquor, also known as cocoa liquor and cocoa mass, is a smooth liquid form of chocolate. It is produced by taking cocoa beans that have been fermented, dried, roasted, and separated from their shells and grinding their center, the cotyledon. The chocolate liquor can then be cooled and molded into blocks known as unsweetened baking chocolate. The liquor and blocks contain roughly 53 percent cocoa butter. Chocolate liquor contains no alcohol.

Then there's this word meaning:
liq·uor    (lkr) KEY 
NOUN:
An alcoholic beverage made by distillation rather than by fermentation.
A rich broth resulting from the prolonged cooking of meat or vegetables, especially greens. Also called pot liquor .
An aqueous solution of a nonvolatile substance.
A solution, emulsion, or suspension for industrial use.

Then you could read all these articles on liquor from Encyclopedia Brittanica which detail quite a range of absolutely non-alcoholic forms of liquor (plus a few alcoholic ones):
http://www.britannic...uery=liquor&ct=

I missed this completely, thank you so much for the info, thanks to you too FlyingGenie

[littleozzybloke]

Taliban Princess, on Dec 19 2006, 09:40 AM, said:

Yes, but I for one, enjoy having a perfectly functioning liver and the use of *all* my brain cells [which I might add, is perhaps why *you* found your 'joke' amusing, and the rest of us didn't?]

hi...with respect here

...i'm 60 this year.. gave up smoking a few years back....and feeling pretty good these days....fairly fit and a jogger..

so all this 'bad' food....can't be all bad...
guess it comes down to what religion you are...what you can and can't eat.. B)
how one thinks/background/ ra ra..

regards phill

[Taliban Princess]

littleozzybloke, on Dec 19 2006, 01:05 PM, said:

hi...with respect here

...i'm 60 this year.. gave up smoking a few years back....and feeling pretty good these days....fairly fit and a jogger..

so all this 'bad' food....can't be all bad...
guess it comes down to what religion you are...what you can and can't eat.. B)
how one thinks/background/ ra ra..

I've never touched a drop of alcohol, never touched cigarettes or any narcotics and I've been walking to and from work for the last 17 years or so.

Guess who I'd rather be Phill?

[ICRA Youth Centre Inc]

Taliban Princess, cut Phill some slack.

The man's trying to carry out a conversation.

Remember: when others join us on the forums it's best to treat them well. It's great for Da3wah.

*This message is not in anyway affiliated with ICRA Youth Centre

Taliban Princess, on Dec 19 2006, 12:11 PM, said:

I've never touched a drop of alcohol, never touched cigarettes or any narcotics and I've been walking to and from work for the last 17 years or so.

Guess who I'd rather be Phill?

[I]

[littleozzybloke]

ahhhh...thats ok Icra....i expected the bite...

princess...i see where your coming from....and i agree there are some bad greasy foods about..all bad...fast food outlests...chemical flavourings...all bad news....

and yes...drugs are bad...huge issue.....but even i admit to a bit of 'pot' in the past..

but i don't think religion should control what one eats.....
maybe in some countries, variety might be an issue...but here in oz...we have huge supermarkets (never ending) with everything one could wish to eat...and i agree..a lot of it is not good, nor healthy for human consumption....

It comes down to the choice of the individual...

and i was only talking about a choccy biscuit now....

This post has been edited by littleozzybloke: 19 December 2006 - 11:51 AM

[ICRA Youth Centre Inc]

Asked Arnott's myself. Their reply is as follows:

Thankyou for contacting Arnott's.

Please be advised that small amounts of alcohol based flavours (like
vanilla essence) are added to some sweet biscuits. We know alcohol is
sensitive to heat and we believe the alcohol is lost during baking, but
there is a slight possibility that trace amounts could still be present in
the finished product.

Regards
Marnie
Consumer Contact Centre
[B]

Personally, no more Tim Tam's for me.

[DarkJustice]

hmm thats interesting ... what about Tim Tam's made in Muslim countries ?!
do they still sue alcohol

[muslimeh]

DarkJustice, on Dec 19 2006, 03:11 PM, said:

hmm thats interesting ... what about Tim Tam's made in Muslim countries ?!
do they still sue alcohol

do tim tams sue alcohol in muslim countries? no, only in america!